dagabu Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I found my 50/50 white glue, water mix to be too wet so I cut back to 33% added water for the last batch. They are better but the thinness of the Kraft paper makes for a more difficult rollup due to wandering. I will use the defective tubes for Cohetes, I've cut them into 3.5" sections and seem plenty robust for that use. Best part so far is in changing out the knife on the large paper cutter yesterday. I was able to cut 1,500 strips of Kraft for rockets. Mind you, these were cut from flats, not a roll. It took 12 cuts to do an entire ream of 36x24 Kraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) I had tried almost every adhesive and mix combination on the market and found pre-mixed wallpaper paste to be far better than everything else. It has a very low water content, spreads real easy, and has excellent tack time with superior grip.I had a lot of problems using white glue - with the desired amount of water needed - it was hard to spread and would dry way too fast for my liking. With water based adhesives the biggest problem in getting tough tubes is keeping the water content as low as possible. Edited November 29, 2018 by Mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Due to physical limitations from my burn, I have to use a roller to spread adhesive, I cannot brush or squeegee, my hands cannot maintain a grip that small. I have used both yellow an white dextrin, Roman premixed wallpaper paste from Shrewin William's (much too expensive for me), wheat paste from Dick Blick as well as homemade, Casein (milk glue), wood glue and white glue so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I`m still using gravy The bottle i used for the test tube has been sitting next to the pc for well over18mths (shelf life testing), its gone a darker brown but thats about all thats changed. Empty washing up liquid bottles are ideal for glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 How do you distribute it on the paper? The past two weeks, I have gone through a full gallon of white glue to make a couple hundred 8" long tubes (cut down to 7.5") cut to the length I need at the time. I have a few hundred strips fresh off the guillotine of card stock (I will have to mic it when I get home) for rolling cohete headers. I may try some for rolling tubes too but the kraft is much more plentiful. I ended up with 5,000 sheets of 36" X 24" #30 white kraft for about $113 delivered from OfficeCrave.com. Cut into three, I should be able to make 5000 tubes from them. No to shabby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 (edited) I used a brush for the test tube but normally a 12" roller charged with glue via a peristaltic pump. The roller has a cast aluminium frame with 2 sets of holes. The rear set of holes holds a spring loaded stainless steel roller that acts as a doctor or metering roll so it only applies a very thin film of glue. For the roller to work it has to be pulled,not pushed You can use it without a pump, just load the roller manually.Here`s the thread that shows the bits and how it goes together. https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/12817-homemade-glue-roller/?do=findComment&comment=176966 Edited November 29, 2018 by Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I bet you have to dedicate a whole day to that operation? I get about an hour use from my hands before having to take an hour break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlking59 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I have used both yellow an white dextrin, Roman premixed wallpaper paste from Shrewin William's (much too expensive for me), wheat paste from Dick Blick as well as homemade, Casein (milk glue), wood glue and white glue so far.which of these do you prefer for ease of use, end result, price, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I bet you have to dedicate a whole day to that operation? I get about an hour use from my hands before having to take an hour break. I`d say it would be the more productive option It takes about 30 seconds to glue up a 1.4m x 900mm sheet with the roller, i wouldnt want to do it with a brush Loading glue into the top nip point bewteen the short pile roller and stainless roller with a washing up liquid bottle is pretty easy. The metering roller holds the excess glue back so you save time not having to move excess glue around the paper. Once you got into the swing i`d say a 2ft x 8" sheet wouldnt take more than 5 seconds. Using the 12" roller for 8" paper is easy enough, nail an 8" wide piece of plastic board to the bench to raise the paper up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Due to physical limitations from my burn, I have to use a roller to spread adhesive, I cannot brush or squeegee, my hands cannot maintain a grip that small. I have used both yellow an white dextrin, Roman premixed wallpaper paste from Shrewin William's (much too expensive for me), wheat paste from Dick Blick as well as homemade, Casein (milk glue), wood glue and white glue so far.If the Sherwin-Williams paste is expensive then it may be the wrong one. It may well be vinyl to vinyl paste (overlap adhesive) which has a lot of PVA content (too sticky and very pricey) The one i use is standard premixed wallpaper adhesive $14 for 5 kilo. A hand roller may put far too much adhesive onto the paper. You may find a fine pile Painters Pad a good alternative. Edited November 30, 2018 by Mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Col, the actual 'rolling' time once the glue has been rolled out is about 15 seconds. Then I use a board to tighten the tube then I remove it from the mandrel. I doubt any of us have a cycle time of less than a minute per tube with alignment, paste, rolling, tightening and removal. What I was referring to is the setup and cleanup cycle time for the area or machine. Even with only a roller board, rolling board, cover and tray to clean, it's still a 15 minute operation to tidy up after I'm done. What is the cleanup time for the machine? I am guessing it has to be completely clean between sessions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Mixer, our basic paste is just wheat paste with benzoate to keep it from spoiling. The old fashioned wallpaper paste is almost impossible, Roman 880 clear is about as close to that as we can buy commercially. Do you have the tub handy? Can you post a pic? My sister in law hung wallpaper for a living (no more) and even she knows of nothing commercially that does not have clays and clears in it. They are also stripable which means that they easily absorb water and will mold easily. More to the point, for my use, it has to be rollable and application has to be under 5 seconds per application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 A pic of the the tub is shown in my article Dag. It`s a pity you can`t get it over there (i`m in the UK) You would be super impressed with its workability - it has excellent open time, spread and tack - giving you everything you need in an adhesive for paper. Nothing comes close to it in my opinion (for hand rolling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Ready-Mixed-Wallpaper-Paste---5kg/p/610094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 A shame for sure. No Wickes here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I`m in the uk, might buy a tub for a side by side The strongest commercial paste i ever used was called Wallrock power adhesive, (toolstation, around £20 for a 10L tub) i ended up having to bin the paste table cos the paste was impossible to remove.Dag, the roller comes to bits, the pile roller is plastic and the stainless rollers bearings are sealed,watertight jobbies so i can chuck it all in the sink. The tube from the peristaltic goes into a 5L container of glue (screw cap, bottle type) so no need to pour the glue out. When i`m done, i just unplug the tube from the roller and use the pump to put whats left inside the tubing back into the 5L container. I clean the tubing by circulating warm, soapy water through it using the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Col, Do you live here in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Aye, where did you think i was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Had always thought you were in the USA. Are you up north? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 well that depends on how far south you are lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Roman PRO-880 seems to be reasonable through Home Depot though... https://www.homedepot.com/p/ROMAN-PRO-880-1-gal-Ultra-Clear-Premium-Clear-Strippable-Wallcovering-Adhesive-207823/203809480 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Cheap enough to buy a tub to try out, it`ll always come in handy for something Not much in the msds regarding ingredients but it does contain a small amount of formaldehyde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Good catch, I only saw 'starch based' and really nothing else worth mentioning. I ordered 2 and interestingly enough, this particular item is the "contractor" grade and almost half price of the consumer grade of the same thing but with a blue label. I have run into that with other products but never with this company before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixer Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 If it`s anything like the adhesive i`m using, you should be onto a winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I sure hope so! I don't mind the white glue but I would like to reduce the ripple in the paper some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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