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How to roll pyro-tubes


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#1 VikingPyrotechnics

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:18 AM

Here you can see how i roll my tubes :-)

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=T3s2rqp8wgo

 

Greets

VP



#2 leedrill

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:39 AM

what do you use for paste vp and do you roll your own 1lb tubes aswell 

 

very neat and quick im goung to have to start rolling my own passfire tubes and stuff soon 

 

and would love to be able to roll 3lb tubes that stand up to nept  but will need some high quality paper for that


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#3 VikingPyrotechnics

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:03 AM

I use white glue and water ( 40/60 )

Sometimes i also roll some tubes for my 1lb rockets.

Here you can see one of it......

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=UoumAsEit5I

 

Greets

VP



#4 leedrill

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:32 AM

dude they sound harder than nept id love to see some controlled tests between the two {one of yours rolled to the same wall thickness and pressed unsupported untill the first drop in pressure }  

 

pressed in 100psi increments and measured at start and finish of time intervals 

 

held for 5 min intervals

 

press displacement measured from top of tube to top of rammer at start and finish of time intervals

 

same batch of fuel used {bentonite might make the test quicker but anything used must be finely powdered to get and even density and friction

between particles } and weight of fuel measured to 0.001 of a gram 

 

every test ive seen so far on tube strength has been very basic from what i have seen {the tube broke at a specific psi }

 

if these guidelines where met a chart of the measurements, time intervals, and pressure will be very easy to see which is best  

 

im not asking you to do these test vp but thought id just post this in hope someone feels the urge too oneday including me 


and on the seventh day, god was unhappy with the break on his finale shell, and decided to roll stars all day.

#5 VikingPyrotechnics

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:55 AM

My press read in tons & kg. 

My little tubes have a wall thickness of 2mm.
I have bentonite pressed in (without support tube).
At 800kg, the small tube is broken.
With the large tubes  I have not done it yet. But they are very hard. :)


#6 leedrill

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:05 AM

that is a really good result vp i am impressed but 

what i mean when i say that what you just gave me is pretty much the only results i ever see 

the tube splitting obviously means it has failed but i would like to know the point where the tube integrity is compromised rather than fail point it is not necessary to know by any means 

 

other than to tell how good your style of rolling tubes is compared to nept and wether we are wasting all that money when we could be rolling tubes as quick as you do with some practice 


and on the seventh day, god was unhappy with the break on his finale shell, and decided to roll stars all day.

#7 Shizznt

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:54 AM

Nice tutorial VP. I was going to watch your old pyro tubes video, but it said that it was taken down. I was looking forward to watching the new video, so I could start making some tubes. Good Job!  :)



#8 Col

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:59 AM

Nice vid VP,

Its worth consolidating the tube with a board after you`ve rolled it to illiminate any voids and increase the density of the wall

The split test is a good way to compare tube strength, the standard procedure is use 20g of bentonite in a 2" section of 3/4" id tube.

http://www.skylighte...works-tubes.asp

The strongest tubes like nept use multiple sheets of virgin kraft calendered together and rolled with the grain parallel to the mandrel. They dont use pva as it softens at modest temperatures, you`ll be surprised at the difference in strength between a hot pva bound tube and a cold one


Edited by Col, 22 November 2013 - 09:00 AM.


#9 mabuse00

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

Thank you wiking :)

 
Just curious: what and specific product of white glue are you using? As far as I know they all react differently to water addition, some loose strenght and some not so much.


Another thought concerning comparisons:
Try comparing tubes by processing them and check how much they shrink. Tubes are often significantly damaged from pressing without being visibly split.

Do you still have your 19,7mm tool? Have you ever compared your homemade tubes with those Rene had?



#10 AdmiralDonSnider

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:49 PM

Very nice tutorial. Clean work.



#11 leedrill

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:03 PM

i can imagine how much glue and other factors would affect the strength but ive never seen a comprehensive test before one that indicates stretching of the tube tearing of the inner wall and so on 

 

a lot can go on in side of the tube without you knowing but the inner workings will all be affected by pressure 

when stressing anchors the guidelines i sort of outlined must be adhered to to get a pass on the anchor and after stressing countless no.s 

i just know a test like this would be very definitive im in aus so getting good virgin kraft is hard to say the least and i dont have the right jack setup or gauges to be able to do the test properly if any one reads this and does have the time and tools would be really great to see what needs to be done to match the results to an nept tube or better them with as thin of a wall as possible 


and on the seventh day, god was unhappy with the break on his finale shell, and decided to roll stars all day.

#12 Col

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:00 PM

There is test equipment in the core winding industry that can measure minute amounts of tube deformation, stress etc but its too expensive for us hobbyists ;)  You can get some idea using Pi (3.141), if a 1" od tube increases by 1mm, the rigidly glued paper is likely to be damaged as it has to stretch by 1/8".


Edited by Col, 22 November 2013 - 06:00 PM.


#13 Bobosan

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:51 PM

Nice tut, VP.   I can see you have been at this tube rolling business awhile.

 

What material is your mandrel made of?



#14 jessoman

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:55 PM

Thats brilliant, I've been doing a few of my own lately for rockets and had a few fail. The paper i use isn't as thick as that, that's notable thicker. I will have to keep searching hard for that sort of paper! We need better suppliers here in AUS.



#15 VikingPyrotechnics

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:10 AM

Hi Mabuse,

 

i used UHU white glue and it works just fine. Ponal works also, but a bit expensive  :D

 

@ Bobosan,

 

it´s a fiberglass / plastic rod. But it works also with pvc etc.

 

Greets 

VP



#16 dan999ification

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:25 AM

Nice tubes and tut vp, I also roll the tube with a board after :)

Dan.

#17 LambentPyro

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:21 AM

Thanks Vking, much appreciated.
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#18 Col

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:21 PM

Thats brilliant, I've been doing a few of my own lately for rockets and had a few fail. The paper i use isn't as thick as that, that's notable thicker. I will have to keep searching hard for that sort of paper! We need better suppliers here in AUS.

Looks like virgin pulp kraft is available in Aus, (Rozelle NSW) it`s bit pricey but a roll will make a lot of tubes. I`d contact them to ask about the weight (gsm) as the roll lengths suggest it may not be a heavy grade. Heavy grades generally come in shorter roll lengths as paper is typically sold by weight. The general purpose is the one you want, not the masking stuff.

http://kraftpaper.co...general-purpose



#19 leedrill

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

thanks col looks like they opened up recently in 2013 i just gave up on looking pity they dont have a contact no. or email i guess ill try to contact them some how but either way what they have looks better than what i can get now would be a game changer for me to have a source of good kraft 


and on the seventh day, god was unhappy with the break on his finale shell, and decided to roll stars all day.

#20 pyroman2498

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 04:49 AM

If I may as ,
How do you get your tubes to come off so easily , mine uslay stick to the dowel.
I've tried plastic around the dowel but that failed :(

Any tips ?
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