outcome of cpsc vs firefox case

[saluterocket]

As you all are probably aware, the cpsc and firefox had to come to an agreement today, january 15th. Has anyone heard about what the agreement happens to be? And if it so happens that there will be very harsh restrictions we should discuss other means of getting oxidizers and other nesesarry pyro related products, such as where to buy AG grade kno3, and how to set up a perchlorate cell, I believe through dicussions such as these, we may not be completely out of pyrotechnics (though we may be limited to basic pyrotechnic compositions such as charcoal stars ). It's better than nothing at all.

[TheSidewinder]

As yesterday was a Holiday (at least for government workers, pffft) there will be nothing to report until the close of business today, the 16th.

 

But like everyone else, I'm holding my breath.....

 

M

[DeAdFX]

SO this means we cans till order 30+ lbs of potassium perchlorate and still recieve the product?

[qwezxc12]

SO this means we cans till order 30+ lbs of potassium perchlorate and still recieve the product?

Who knows?

 

I got 50lbs of Pot Perc, 20lbs ea. of Ammonium Perc and Strontium Nitrate two weeks ago as "insurance"... it *might* keep me for the 4th. Thank God for ceramic suppliers, though.

 

Hoping not to have to get licensed and build a magazine to keep playing. I, too am waiting for the news to break and hoping it's not too bad.

[ewest]

I envision a loophole of many different side companies popping up that only supply oxidizers and stuff like that. So if the Feds say you can only sell 5lbs at a time. I'll just have to get 5lbs from Skylighter, 5lbs from Firefox, 5lbs from Bob's House 'O Perch.

 

There are ways around any government limitations. Which is why the whole thing is really stupid to begin with.

[DeAdFX]

SO this means we cans till order 30+ lbs of potassium perchlorate and still recieve the product?

Who knows?

 

I got 50lbs of Pot Perc, 20lbs ea. of Ammonium Perc and Strontium Nitrate two weeks ago as "insurance"... it *might* keep me for the 4th. Thank God for ceramic suppliers, though.

 

Hoping not to have to get licensed and build a magazine to keep playing. I, too am waiting for the news to break and hoping it's not too bad.

Well I guess it doesn't really matter now for me. sheesh dad keeps putting off the damned order.. Fucking helll...

[asilentbob]

Yeah my parents kept putting off a nice order and... its the 16th now... i just gave up on the order... I'll put more thought into this later.

[ewest]

I still haven't seen or heard what the outcome was, has anyone else?

[Frozentech]

I still haven't seen or heard what the outcome was, has anyone else?

It's been pushed back to 28 Feb for both parties to deliver to the court, a preliminary statement of what they want to achieve in the case.

[Mumbles]

So in that case we'll have a final ruling, say 2008ish? Probably just before the 4th of July. In a way I am kind of hoping we can drag this along past when the CPSC is up for review.

 

Hey look what we did. We spent millions of dollars in court litigation in a case that we really have nothing to do with.

[aquaman]

Newsletter

 

That is skylighter's newsletter and it is saying that the Gov. is asking restrictions on Oxidisers (1lb a year per person), some fuels (metals), some tubes, and fuses. So in other words get what you need to last for a while and expect alot of restrictions on oxidizers.

 

[Frozentech]

Newsletter

 

That is skylighter's newsletter and it is saying that the Gov. is asking restrictions on Oxidisers (1lb a year per person), some fuels (metals), some tubes, and fuses. So in other words get what you need to last for a while and expect alot of restrictions on oxidizers.

 

Well, I hate to say that is a marketing tool being used by Harry to sell *his* product. He most certainly isn't party to the case between his competitor and the CPSC. Firefox didn't *lose* anything yet, the case has been further postponed as mentioned earlier. No judge has even touched it, other than to say "you guys come to some agreement and present it to me" and even that is postponed to Feb 28.

 

What Harry did was use FUD ( Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) to boost his own sales. Real nice.

 

Also, don't get the idea that the CPSC sets the law here. All they are, though they frequently forget it, is a commision that reports to a subcommittee in the US Senate, which reports to a larger committee, which introduces legislation to the senate, etc... and on in the normal manner of bill and law passage. Any agreement that Firefox and CPSC reach is NOT binding on any other seller in the US. ( Although, you can bet that once Firefox is done, they WILL go after others )

[qwezxc12]

...Also, don't get the idea that the CPSC sets the law here.  All they are, though they frequently forget it, is a commision that reports to a subcommittee in the US Senate, which reports to a larger committee, which introduces legislation to the senate, etc... and on in the normal manner of bill and law passage.  Any agreement that Firefox and CPSC reach is NOT binding on any other seller in the US.  ( Although, you can bet that once Firefox is done, they WILL go after others )

Unfortunately, regardless of their status as an advisory commission, they seem to have no problem exerting influence and peddling threats. Look at Iowa Pyro, United Nuclear, etc... Most importantly, they've made big distributers like Hummel Croton cease selling to repackagers like Skylighter and FireFox...that's what's causing the real pinch, IMO.

 

Unless their charter undergoes a radical revision, they're going to follow in the footsteps of a wonderful executive branch organization that has aspirations of a legislative body....BATF ring a bell?

 

[Tinfoil Hat]If only gov offices were accountable under RICO... If siccing the IRS on those organizations that stand up to you isn't corrupt use of inluence, I don't know what is...[/Tinfoil Hat]

[Mumbles]

The CPSC wasn't involved in the Iowa Pyro Supply shut down to my knowledge. I believe it was mostly the DEA. They sold red phosphorus only in person, and only with a signed waiver. It wasn't even advertised on the site. The DEA busted a methamphetamine lab which had a container of red phosphorus in a Iowa Pyro Supply container. It is likely the Red P was either resold from a person on waiver, or stolen. In order to avoid some heat and a lengthy trial they had to shut their doors.

[qwezxc12]

Whoops...got my facts mixed up there...I must have mistook the Iowa Pyro deal for another supplier. Thanks for the correction.

 

The pressure on Hummel Croton etc. not to sell to re-packagers appears true, though.

 

I got the IRS thing from an open letter posted last April on rec.pyrotechnics purportedly by Tom Handel, 1st VP, PGII and John Steinberg, Trustee, The Fireworks Foundation:

link

 

Edit: Actually I was partially correct in the assertion that CSPC was involved. True, it appears that the DEA deal was got them on the radar, but the actual charges that closed them were that they "sold powdered aluminum, potassium perchlorate, sulfur, and about 100 M-80 and 200 M-100 tubes and pre-cut fuses to a customer in Illinois, court doccuments said."

Link

 

Anyway...the point regarding the CSPC remains

[cplmac]

Well the deadline was yesterday, anyone hear anything yet?

[taiwanluthiers]

I envision a loophole of many different side companies popping up that only supply oxidizers and stuff like that. So if the Feds say you can only sell 5lbs at a time. I'll just have to get 5lbs from Skylighter, 5lbs from Firefox, 5lbs from Bob's House 'O Perch.

 

There are ways around any government limitations. Which is why the whole thing is really stupid to begin with.

 

You know there's a Chinese saying, "There are rules from above, and there are loopholes from below" (above in Chinese refers to those in authority, and below refers to common people). Just for example: Restrictions against firework is actually quite harsh in Taiwan but they're still everywhere. For example no fireworks in public parks and when holiday comes around (and there are numerous holidays that involve firework, aside from New Years and Independence day) parks are pretty much the only place fireworks are lit. One can even buy "Class B (1.3)" fireworks with the right connection and no one bats an eye. Even if you got busted for it the penalty in most case is just a fine, not a very big fine too at least compared to the US. Jail terms are even less common unless its something serious (underground firework factory exploding is one of them).

 

Chemical suppliers will happily sell Perchlorate without asking any question. There appears to be a legal limit on how much perchlorate you can have but I doubt someone will get a warrant and raid your place unless you're planning on making a bomb. That said perchlorate makes horrible bombs anyways.