Cedar Charcoal for BP

[Wiley]

Hey, I have access to "cedar" but I'm not sure what kind it is. The biggest tree I've ever seen of this type was about 100-120 feet tall and at least 3-4" through at the butt. Most are smaller than this. It has a large, reddish heartwood, with lighter, almost white sapwood. The bark is fibrous and peels off of dried wood in strips. Is this "red cedar?" Will it work as well as some of the charcoals that are touted for making super hot BP: white pine, balsa, paulownia? I'm interested in using Ned Gorski's "simply screened" red gum BP procedure, so the charcoal needs to be as "hot" as possible. I also found these screens http://www.pyrodirect.com/ecom-catshow/304screen.html. Would the really fine ones, say 200 mesh or -325 mesh, work even better than the 100 mesh that Ned uses? I have a ball mill of sorts with steel media and a ceramic jar that can be used to make airfloat powders out of individual chemicals. Will it even be humanly possible to screen the airfloat BP chemicals through such fine screens? Thanks!

[Algenco]

sounds like Red Cedar, the more red the better.

Cedar growing in poor soil grows slowly with more red than white wood

[Wiley]

So, it will be comparable to white pine in BP, correct? I've also heard that the 1% RG added to Ned's formula makes pretty weak grains that are nevertheless comparable in power to commercial BP (if you use good charcoal ). Would upping the RG content to 4 or 5% make durable grains? Will this slow the BP down, and if it does, how much?

[Mumbles]

Yes, there will be a trade off between more red gum and slower speeds. I honestly can't tell you how much it would slow it down. For what I do, I need durable grains, so that method doesn't work for me. I have seen some indication that something can be done similarly with aqueous binders, which tend to be stronger. For granulated BP, the drying times should still be fairly quick too. I can send you a link if you'd like, but a little testing still needs to be done. I've seen this stuff in practice and it appeared weaker than "normal" BP. Using a little more would probably do the trick though.

 

I would think that 100 mesh will be tough enough as it is to pass everything through. I'd actually suggest preliminarily screening it once or twice through something coarser to get all the clumps broken up. Also if you're interested in trying some finer mesh screens, I'd suggest going straight to the source. www.mcmaster.com will have probably the exact same product for much less. "Wire cloth" is the term you're looking for. There are a lot of options there to get exactly what you want.

[Wiley]

Thanks Mumbles! Yes, I would love to see the link you mentioned. I intend to make cylinder shells with granulated BP burst, so I need durable grains as well. I am banned by my parents from ball milling black powder, since we live on 1.5 acres near a highway, library, and middle school. I have to make some sort of screened method work, since buying BP would never be permitted (need to save money for college). I would love to experiment with the screened methods though, since it's legal and cheap for me to do. If I have to use a bit more for lift, and put flash bags in my shells, I'll be happy, just as long as I can make BP for $3 per pound. I think for the screen I'll use the screened 100 mesh from Skylighter. Thanks again! Edited March 20, 2013 by Wiley

[Mumbles]

http://www.wpag.us/learn/How%20To%20Make%20Black%20Powder.pdf

 

It should be noted that 2FA is -4+12 mesh, and 4FA is -12+20 mesh though.

 

Try to find Psyco_1322, Wonderboy, or I in the chat at night sometime. We've been discussing and testing ways to use entirely unmilled BP for lift and breaks lately.

[Wiley]

So Mumbles, will the BP made in that tutorial work for lifting and bursting shells, provided that enough of it is used? It would seem that boiling water instead of cold would make faster BP. What do you think?

[WonderBoy]

Any luck yet Wiley? I am always interested in hearing others' experiences. I don't think you need nearly that fine of screens, assuming your chemicals are fine to begin with. I think hot water polverone will be make faster BP, but either way you will probably need to do some testing to figure out what suits your needs.

 

If you are using polverone for bursting shells, you will need to add a booster; I seriously doubt polverone could be made hot enough to be used alone. I have successfully used polverone with a booster in both cylinder and ball shells.

 

Do you ever get on Chat? Some nights are better than others, but I recommend checking it out.

 

 

WB

[Mumbles]

I clearly missed this before. The material in that tutorial does work. In my opinion you do need to use some additional BP compared to conventional milled BP. I don't know if the hot vs. cold water would make a difference considering all materials should be finely ground anyway. Hot water might yield a slightly faster powder. If you ever try it, let us know.

 

Polverone made with a reactive charcoal like recommended in those tutorials will yield a hotter product than something made with commercial airfloat. It does work for lift as-is with some adjustments as I just mentioned. I'm not sure how it'd work for bursting cylinder shells. I suspect you could make it work as-is with some adjustment of spiking and pasting. A tighter grouping of spiking and/or a couple extra turns of pasted paper may be required. Otherwise, you can coat it with a booster. I've done some experimenting with using a booster and polverone made with commercial BP and gotten pretty good results. If you're interested, send me a pm or find me in the chat some night and I can fill you in on the details.

[AirCowPeacock]

Lately I've been using 2% RG bound BP (3h 2-part milled using Buckthorn) for burst (in cylinder shells) and 2% SGRS bound BP (from the same meal) for lift.

 

The RG BP is less labor intensive (and otherwise more efficient) to produce, because it's easier to press through a screen and it dries more rapidly. It also seems to be slightly faster and significantly less dense. I find to get strong grains it is important to dissolve the RG in your solvent before adding to your meal; although, you won't acheive grains as strong as 2% SGRS until you use about 5% RG.

 

I use 12 ml 60:40 Denatured Alcohol:Acetone mix with 2 grams RG for every 100g of meal, then I mix the solution with my meal and spritz more Denatured alcohol in until I reach the desired consistancy. Grate through a screen, then dry on newspaper for about 3 hours. You'll get a few more fines than normal, which I like to screen out and use for other stuff, like priming things.

Edited April 12, 2013 by AirCowPeacock