How long should pasting strips be

[PyroCube]

Hi all

 

When I past my shells with the 3 strip method (I assume this is the best method?)

its quite hard to figure out how long the strips should be.

If they are too long, they overlap on the poles and create bumps. When I make them

shorter so they don`t overlap instead of the bumps there are just holes.

(I use kraft paper with wheat paste)

I know there were a few pasting threads so far but I`m still not sure how I should past my shells...?

 

Greets

[dynomike1]

Watch video towards the bottom of this link.

 

http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/3-Inch-Hybrid-Ball-Shells.asp

[Mumbles]

That video, while a fine pasting method in it's own right, is not of the 3 strip method. The 3-strip method, as I've been told, is from the Westech Firework Manual in the section on japanese shells. The original source recommends strips 1" wide for 3" through 6" shells, and 2" wide for 8" through 12". The other source (passfire) recommends strips about 1/16 of the shell circumfrence wide. If you're planning on using gummed tape instead of pasted paper, I'd suggest going to 3/4" for 3" and maybe 4", and 1" for maybe 4 through 6". If you're going even bigger, you probably are experienced enough not to need my advice on that.

 

For the 3 strip method you want to use strips that are as long as about 1/3 the diameter of the shell. It often works out that you can use about the nominal diameter of the shell. IE a 3" shell uses strips around 3" long, a 6" shell uses strips around 6" long. This usually comes out a tad long from perfectly 1/3 of the current diameter for the first layers, and about perfect on the last layers. If you're a pefectionist, you can use shorter strips, but a lot of people don't even precut the length of strips, and just tear off strips from a longer pasted strip or tape as they go. Doing it by eye should get you close to optimal on every layer.

 

For the 3 strip method the first starts from the fuse, and will run about halfway down the opposite hemi. The shell is rotated so that the next strip overlaps about half of the previous strip, and about centered in the middle of the shell so that there is an equidistant gap between the strip and the fuse and the strip and the opposite pole or lifting loop. The final strip is layed down, again off set to cover about half of the middle strip, and this time touching the opposite pole or lifting loop.

 

Some people find it easier to get things lined up if they paste the first strip touching the fuse, then the third strip touching the lifting loop first. The two pieces should butt up against each other laterally, but not overlap. Then they add the middle piece overlapping each previous piece equally. Then the process is repeated essentially overlapping the 3rd strip 100%, but starting at the fused end.

 

There is a nice picture tutorial on passfire if I've confused you or explained it poorly (which is very likely). I can tell you that the description in Westech is not nearly as clear as the one on passfire.

[dynomike1]

Yep i'm confused.

[Shadowcat1969]

The one by .50AE here is pretty good, it shows a ball shell from start to finish, but what he's using is the 3 strip method, and gives a pretty good visual of it: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/4729-how-to-make-a-3-paper-ball-shell/

[PyroCube]

Hi Mumbles

Sorry, considering English isn`t my native language it`s quite hard to understand your explanation

Is this the proper 3 strip method: http://pyroforum.nl/topic/2919-tutorial-3-strip-shell-pasting/ ?

Its a bit different than showed by 50AE ?

Quite confusing that pasting, maybe I should just get started in making some 3" shells instead of thinking about pasting all the time...

 

 

Greets

[Mumbles]

I don't actually speak dutch, but the pictures look right. As far as I can tell, they actually illustrate the alternative method I described where people lay down the first and third strip first before adding in the middle strip.

[dynomike1]

That was a good video, it cleared me up. I liked the music to. That's what i wished there were more of making shells like pistil,ring, multi break, etc. To me there are a lot of questions in pictures maybe trying to read into them to deep. I guess the 3 strip method would work on plastic to.

[WonderBoy]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpyroforum.nl%2Ftopic%2F2919-tutorial-3-strip-shell-pasting%2F&act=url&authuser=0

 

Off topic, but I like looking at other pyro forums. Google translate does a decent job, just doesn't work quite so well for more technical things.

 

What is the advantage of 3 strip over something like how ned was pasting? Is there more build up going "pole to pole"?

 

 

WB

[Shadowcat1969]

With the 3 strip it prevents buildup at the poles. You use 3 axis's on the shell and go from "top" to "bottom" pole with the first layer, then from "left" to "right" pole with the next layer, then from "front" to "back" pole with the third. Lather, rinse, repeat. That moves the buildup from 2 locations (top and bottom) to 6 different locations on the shell, keeping it as round as possible.

[Seymour]

I don't think that's quite what the three strip method is. Mumbles summed it up quite well a few posts above.

 

For the 3 strip method the first starts from the fuse, and will run about halfway down the opposite hemi. The shell is rotated so that the next strip overlaps about half of the previous strip, and about centered in the middle of the shell so that there is an equidistant gap between the strip and the fuse and the strip and the opposite pole or lifting loop. The final strip is layed down, again off set to cover about half of the middle strip, and this time touching the opposite pole or lifting loop.

 

However you are right about the reason why.

 

Wonderboy, I'm not sure if I've seen Ned's system recently enough to have remembered. Got a link or a brief outline?

 

However I think that in general the three strip method is a waste of time (as some members may be tired of me repeating).

 

If you paste strips from pole to pole every time you sure do get a big buildup. However it's really easy to avoid this. Put one really long strip from the timefuse in the north pole down to the south pole and back up the other side to the north pole again. You have two segments, and you divide it in to two more with strips that go from the edge of the paper you just pasted up at the north pole to the edge of the paper at the south pole. Repeat until a layer is done, every time with shorter strips to minimize overlap.

 

Having done this, pole buildup is reduced enough that in small shells you can get away without rotating poles. However to further reduce buildup due to overlapping, pole rotating like Shadowcat describes will get nearly perfect results with perhaps half, possibly less , of the work involved with three strip.

 

Perhaps with a masterpiece shell of the perfection seen in the finest Japanese examples I would go to the extra effort and use the three strip method, in combination with pole rotating, and thin paper, because no effort shopuld be spared for a smidgen closer to absolute perfection. But really, unless your stars are absolutely perfectly sized rolled stars, and your shell is loaded with similar precision (screening the burst in to tight grades would be suitable) the extra work for the three strip method, compared to other good methods, would bring absolutely no benefit.

[Algenco]

I don't think that's quite what the three strip method is. Mumbles summed it up quite well a few posts above.

 

 

 

However you are right about the reason why.

 

Wonderboy, I'm not sure if I've seen Ned's system recently enough to have remembered. Got a link or a brief outline?

 

However I think that in general the three strip method is a waste of time (as some members may be tired of me repeating).

 

If you paste strips from pole to pole every time you sure do get a big buildup. However it's really easy to avoid this. Put one really long strip from the timefuse in the north pole down to the south pole and back up the other side to the north pole again. You have two segments, and you divide it in to two more with strips that go from the edge of the paper you just pasted up at the north pole to the edge of the paper at the south pole. Repeat until a layer is done, every time with shorter strips to minimize overlap.

 

Having done this, pole buildup is reduced enough that in small shells you can get away without rotating poles. However to further reduce buildup due to overlapping, pole rotating like Shadowcat describes will get nearly perfect results with perhaps half, possibly less , of the work involved with three strip.

 

Perhaps with a masterpiece shell of the perfection seen in the finest Japanese examples I would go to the extra effort and use the three strip method, in combination with pole rotating, and thin paper, because no effort shopuld be spared for a smidgen closer to absolute perfection. But really, unless your stars are absolutely perfectly sized rolled stars, and your shell is loaded with similar precision (screening the burst in to tight grades would be suitable) the extra work for the three strip method, compared to other good methods, would bring absolutely no benefit.

 

that's a good description of the way I do it and the result impresses Ned, he has said on several ocassions my pasting is as good as any he's ever seen and quite possibly the best.

I feel burnishing plays a big role in keeping the shell uniform

Most think I crazy, but I enjoy pasting shells

[Seymour]

that's a good description of the way I do it and the result impresses Ned, he has said on several ocassions my pasting is as good as any he's ever seen and quite possibly the best.

I feel burnishing plays a big role in keeping the shell uniform

Most think I crazy, but I enjoy pasting shells

 

Burnishing certainly is the key to ironing out all the imperfections, that and (with pasted paper at least, may not apply to gummed tape) 'breaking in' the paper and getting it all soft and pliable.

 

Yeah, I think they're crazy too. Sure, on a production scale anything gets tedious, but with all the love and thought that's gone in to our babies shells, spending some time with them and watching them finish up and look so pretty in your hands is so satisfying! It can almost be hard to let them go at times.

[Mumbles]

I don't use the 3 strip method either, and I agree with most of what has been said here. Still, it's a popular method for whatever reason.

 

I use the method outlined in Jim Widmann's article in the PGI bulletin. Basically you paste strips around the shell leaving an open pole on each end, and then fill in the poles seperately after you've created the layer. I think it works pretty well and avoids buildup around the poles. The final layer I use strips pole to pole and don't overlap them at all, unlike the other layers. This is primarily for cosmetic reasons. I want my shells to look as pretty as they're going to preform (hopefully).

[AirCowPeacock]

I want my shells to look as pretty as they're going to preform (hopefully).

 

I feel the exact same way.