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#41 WRAITH

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 06:07 PM

It's not an explosive & it's not that dangerous, but it's safer than BP & far less toxic whilst the residue from burning golden powder is water soluble. Dont go using sodium bi-carbonate, it's Sodium Carbonate, they're two different chemicals, Sodium Carbonate is caustic & sodium bi-carbonate is not.

#42 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 09:03 PM

It's not an explosive & it's not that dangerous, but it's safer than BP & far less toxic whilst the residue from burning golden powder is water soluble. Dont go using sodium bi-carbonate, it's Sodium Carbonate, they're two different chemicals, Sodium Carbonate is caustic & sodium bi-carbonate is not.

BP is toxic? Sodium carbonate is caustic? Uhh, I don't think so. Nitrate is used for curing meats. In large quantities. Think keeping corned beef pink. Sausages too. Charcoal is charcoal. Ya can shovel a quarter pound down your gullet to absorb ingested poisons (try eating a quarter pound of charcoal sometimes--it's piped in as a slurry). Sulfur is about as inert as can be, though some people might have a mild skin reaction to it; actually it's a component of several acne formulations. Probably wouldn't want to breath the dust (or most dusts, for that matter). Sodium carbonate? It's friggin' washing soda--you wash your clothes with it, ffs!! And a water softener in some systems--that you then drink. Little sister to the bicarbonate baking soda used in many baked goods. Na2CO3 is caustic? You're off your nut.

 

You seriously need to do some studying because you are spreading flat-out inaccurate information. In this case, harmless, but just plain wrong nonetheless.

 

Your chemistry knowledge is rudimentary to non-existent, your toxicology wisdom is nil, and you, appropriately, are responding to a thread written by other likely teenage and inexperienced idiots.

 

Nothing wrong with being stupid, but if you're really super-duper stupid and somehow convince yourself that you're a wizard? Well, that's a worrisome combination. Too common, unfortunately

 

Congratulations on rejuvenating a 14-year-old post, created and followed by confirmed morons, with a latest post before yours from 6 years ago. You are carrying the torch, for sure!

 

I'd be investing in Nomex and Kevlar for your family members.


Edited by SharkWhisperer, 01 March 2021 - 11:56 PM.

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#43 WRAITH

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 01:12 AM

Your a tripper, in the post they said bicarb soda or sodium bicarbonate & all i was stating is that sodium carbonate is a caustic version of sodium bicarbonate which when heated, carbon dioxide & H²O get expelled, then your left with sodium carbonate. If someone added bicarb to golden powder, it would be closer to a smoke bomb as bicarb lowers the temperature of the flame as it releases carbon dioxide. I know my chemistry & using tech grade KNO³, compared to food grade KNO³ is a big difference. Perhaps i'm not the one who needs to learn chemistry.

#44 WRAITH

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 01:24 AM

Oh, & if you read it properly, i wrote "far less toxic than BP" meaning the chemicals mainly used for golden powder ie: KNO³ + Vitamin C, compared to KNO³, Sulfur + Charcoal. Talk about jumping the gun, go get laid or something, sounds like you need it.

#45 Mumbles

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 11:52 AM

SharkWhisper, if you're going to attack everyone who mis-steps or you don't agree with just leave the forum and save me the trouble of banning you.

 

In any case, sodium carbonate is caustic.  The solid can irritate, attack, blister, and burn skin.  Concentrated solutions can do the same.  At the same time, I have no idea why it was even brought up.  There were only two mentions of bicarbonate earlier, and it was stated that it's probably not all that useful anyway.  First of all, it was suggested to be 1-2% of golden powder.  Secondly, the very brief discussion about carbonate was in relation to Crimson Powder.  Thirdly, carbonate or bicarbonate will become neutralized when exposed to ascorbic acid anyway if you use the aqueous preparation.  Which one you use or if you use it at all is basically irrelevant.

 

Also, charcoal and sulfur are less toxic than ascorbic acid based on the toxicity data I've seen.  Not that any of them are even remotely toxic.  Calling this far less toxic is at best a huge stretch if not outright BS.  I wouldn't try to use that as a justification.


Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#46 Carbon796

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 05:03 PM

SharkWhisper, if you're going to attack everyone who mis-steps or you don't agree with just leave the forum and save me the trouble of banning you.



Mumbles are you open to a bribe ?

What's it going to take ?

Tooling ?

Chems ?

Cash ?

I could start a gofundme page. We'd probably have plenty of contributors ;)

#47 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:55 PM

Mumbles are you open to a bribe ?

What's it going to take ?

Tooling ?

Chems ?

Cash ?

I could start a gofundme page. We'd probably have plenty of contributors ;)

Carbon, in terms of forum readership opinions of quality of information provided, based solely on "likes"/posts ratio, we're pretty similar: You are 55/423 posts=13% recognized positive responses. I am 77/494 posts=16% recognized positive responses. About the same.

 

So, personalities aside, in terms of quality of information delivered, the numbers might suggest our inputs are of equivalent value. We've both been doing fireworking for many years.

 

I don't have a personal beef with you, and am asking you not to continue yours with me.



#48 yardarmwheeze

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 08:58 AM

BP is toxic? Sodium carbonate is caustic? Uhh, I don't think so. Nitrate is used for curing meats. In large quantities. Think keeping corned beef pink. Sausages too. Charcoal is charcoal. Ya can shovel a quarter pound down your gullet to absorb ingested poisons (try eating a quarter pound of charcoal sometimes--it's piped in as a slurry). Sulfur is about as inert as can be, though some people might have a mild skin reaction to it; actually it's a component of several acne formulations. Probably wouldn't want to breath the dust (or most dusts, for that matter). Sodium carbonate? It's friggin' washing soda--you wash your clothes with it, ffs!! And a water softener in some systems--that you then drink. Little sister to the bicarbonate baking soda used in many baked goods. Na2CO3 is caustic? You're off your nut.

 

You seriously need to do some studying because you are spreading flat-out inaccurate information. In this case, harmless, but just plain wrong nonetheless.

 

Your chemistry knowledge is rudimentary to non-existent, your toxicology wisdom is nil, and you, appropriately, are responding to a thread written by other likely teenage and inexperienced idiots.

 

Nothing wrong with being stupid, but if you're really super-duper stupid and somehow convince yourself that you're a wizard? Well, that's a worrisome combination. Too common, unfortunately

 

Congratulations on rejuvenating a 14-year-old post, created and followed by confirmed morons, with a latest post before yours from 6 years ago. You are carrying the torch, for sure!

 

I'd be investing in Nomex and Kevlar for your family members.

Shark that was a good comment about how black powder is not really that toxic and charcoal absorbing poison. But just calm down a little bit man. You can still tell him he needs to get his facts straight in a bit less abrasive manner. Still a good catch with the comment of black powder and toxicity.


Edited by yardarmwheeze, 03 March 2021 - 09:06 AM.

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#49 WRAITH

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 10:40 AM

Mr whisperer, i was just giving the right information to an old post since i read some discrepancies. Yeah i replied to an old post, so what ? I get awesome flash powder from that composition. If you were in my face being that rude, like your reply to my post, i would've cracked you one there & then. I'm not a violent person, but i choose to be fairly respectful & help others, but with my background i don't take no crap. Another thing, if you know so much & think your so smart, then there are a lot of old posts from members questioning that need an answer & how to safely go about doing it.
On another note, thanks for saying that Mumbles. Also Crimson powder doesn't use sodium carbonate as the formula is mixed by weight at the Ratio 12:8:1 Potassium Nitrate + Ascorbic Acid + Ferric Oxide. The golden powder 2nd formula with Potassium Nitrate + Ascorbic Acid + sodium carbonate, converts the sodium carbonate to carbonic acid. Sulfur we use in fireworks (flowers of sulfur etc) is ok topically, maybe ingesting a little may be ok but not too much as it's not food grade. What will work is Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) that is ok for consumption & if you ingest charcoal, sure it will make your back end breeze less toxic, but also all your medication can be thrown away as charcoal will absorb it, but it has to be activated charcoal & not your fireworks type charcoal as that won't do squat. I'm not sure where this information comes from but please look it up if you have to, i'm not wrong.

#50 Richtee

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 11:01 AM

Mumbles are you open to a bribe ?

What's it going to take ?
  ;)

I’ll be making some beef jerky soon... :D


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I like smoke! On food or in the air equally well.

#51 SharkWhisperer

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 01:56 PM

In any case, sodium carbonate is caustic.  The solid can irritate, attack, blister, and burn skin.  Concentrated solutions can do the same. 

Arm & Hammer Washing Soda. Pure sodium carbonate. Proudly sold since 1874. Warnings are "eye irritant". "Harmful if swallowed". No skin issues, regardless of what an over-reaching liability-limiting MSDS or Wikipedia article might suggest. No warnings to wear gloves when you're doing your laundry.  Pure sodium carbonate. Not a single mention of potential skin irritation. Only the benign "If on skin, wash thoroughly with water". Nobody's taking a bath in concentrated sodium carbonate solution, so caustic warnings for chem handling for both cleaning purposes and pyro purposes is pretty much without any practical utility. Sure it can cause irritation and possible "burns" with extended exposure. But calling it "caustic" is a stretch. It's baby sister sodium bicarbonate/baking soda also has skin irritation/cracking (but no "possible burns") on the MSDS.  Nobody's going to suffer carbonate burns when working with it without gloves on. This is not akin to NaOH/KOH or H2SO4 drain cleaners that'll blind and cook you. This is effectively harmless washing soda/sodium carbonate, so long as you don't eat it or bathe in it (solutions indeed are strongly basic). Incidentally, the LD50 in rats is 3g/kg for table salt, i.e., sodium chloride. For sodium carbonate? 4g/kg (sodium bicarbonate/baking soda=4.2 g/kg). The most recent American Association of Poison Control Centers compendium of cases was from 2019 and cites one death each from table salt ingestion and from baking soda ingestion. None from washing soda. In medicine (DrugBank) sodium carbonate has clinical utility as a topical treatment for "dermatitides, mouthwash, vaginal douche." Carbicarb is an IV solution of sodium carbonate and bicarbonate combo that was used in hospitals and dialysis clinics for rapidly adjusting blood pH to reverse metabolic or lactic acid acidosis. Intravenously. Powdered sodium carbonate, unless bathed in, probably doesn't cause too many trips to the ER or dermatologist, if any... But it'll help keep your household spiffy.811ZyO1%2BMfL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


Edited by SharkWhisperer, 04 March 2021 - 03:37 PM.

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#52 Richtee

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 05:56 PM

Arm & Hammer Washing Soda. Pure sodium carbonate. Proudly sold since 1874. Warnings are "eye irritant". "Harmful if swallowed". 

Got anything on Tide Pods?


I like smoke! On food or in the air equally well.

#53 WRAITH

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 06:35 PM

Washing soda is Sodium carbonate decahydrate (Na²CO³·10H²O)

Natural soda ash is also a cost-effective substitute for caustic soda or sodium hydroxide, which is named after its chemical identity as a sodium hydrate and because it is caustic or corrosive. In pure form, it readily absorbs water and forms aqueous solutions.

Sodium Carbonate is alkaline with a pH level of 11.
It turns red litmus to blue.

#54 WRAITH

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 06:54 PM

You lot really have to get back into chemistry, reading & paying attention. As you see the label on arm & hammer ??
What are the ingredients ?
Sodium chloride & water. Yes water is used 10 fold for crystallization, if not this shit will burn you.
I don't post anything that's not a fact or i haven't tried, please don't insult me with little knowledge i have & i don't see anything on charcoal in which shark whisperer tried degrading me on my reply either, only what he found on the net instead of "researching" ? It's good being a chemist while i have backyarders telling me otherwise. I like to have fun, help people & joke around, but your attacks seem childish, degrading & petty. Go get a root, pass the entry exam for a place in MENSA, then have a chat. If i'm wrong i'll say it, & shark whisperer who cares about how many likes or gold stars you have, it's about sharing the "correct" information when dealing with explosive substances.

#55 WRAITH

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Posted 05 March 2021 - 07:00 PM

I meant Sodium Carbonate & water NOT Sodium chloride (NaCl) salt & water as the ingredients.




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