kleberrios Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I was wondering if anyone has tried to produce sparks with Niobium powder, similar to titanium powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I was wondering if anyone has tried to produce sparks with Niobium powder, similar to titanium powder? No, but I've used powdered zirconium and hafnium (definitely similar to titanium, but different). WSM edit: How much niobium powder do you have? Edited December 30, 2012 by WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 No, but I've used powdered zirconium and hafnium (definitely similar to titanium, but different). WSM edit: How much niobium powder do you have? My country is holding 98% of the reserves of niobium (PYROCLORINE) of the world, mine is 300 miles from my home, however I do not know if the ore would serve to sparks or if the ore had to be benefited. Zirconium, hafinium, and Titanium make alloys with niobium. Niobium 200 mesh is pyrophoric, Niobium oxidize at 400 º C. All the properties are very similar to niobium titanium.Here in Brazil the same mine that produces Niobio, produces also Titanium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 My country is holding 98% of the reserves of niobium (PYROCLORINE) of the world, mine is 300 miles from my home, however I do not know if the ore would serve to sparks or if the ore had to be benefited. Zirconium, hafinium, and Titanium make alloys with niobium. Niobium 200 mesh is pyrophoric, Niobium oxidize at 400 º C. All the properties are very similar to niobium titanium.Here in Brazil the same mine that produces Niobio, produces also Titanium. It sounds like interesting material, but the processing to win it looks fairly involved (= expensive, I think). If you can get some to experiment with, let us know what you learn about it. Don't forget to first do your homework and learn as much as you can, then proceed with caution... Have fun. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't know a lot about niobium itself. I do know some about vanadium and tantalum though. Much like titanium, their oxides are extremely resilient. Tantalum oxide is for instance one of the few things not really affected by aqua regia. One must use HF. I suspect that niobium is similar. A very stable, resilient oxide, is generally a good indicator of decent white light emitting species. If you can get some for a reasonable price, I'd say it's worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirCowPeacock Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) The stability of the oxide would contribute the the 'firedust effect,' would it not? Edited December 30, 2012 by AirCowPeacock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I doubt the stability of the oxide has any impact on the "firedust". Firedust is generally in reference to charcoal and lampblack tails. To me, it's a tail that sort of hangs there and floats. Some people will apply this to flake Al type streamers too. It has more to do with particle size, shape, and density. It would make the flame brighter probably though. The titanium, zirconium, hafnium series follows this trend. They also tend to burn longer for a given particle size. They don't many anything that resembles a firedust in my opinion though. They're too dense, and used at too large a particle size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirCowPeacock Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 It was my undersranding that firedust is simply a flamable substance that is being partially protected from the oxygen in the air by an inert counterpart, slowing the burn speed. I do not consider hang time to be a relavent property to firedust, I do however consider burn time to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Fire dust is just another name given to long hanging charcoal stars. Usually they soak the charcoal in the nitrate solution. Pretty sure the phrase was coined by Shimizu. There are a number of formulas that claim a metallic fire dust effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 It sounds like interesting material, but the processing to win it looks fairly involved (= expensive, I think). If you can get some to experiment with, let us know what you learn about it. Don't forget to first do your homework and learn as much as you can, then proceed with caution... Have fun. WSM Do not know if you know, but I produce titanium powder here in Brazil. I produce granular, flake and titanium hydride. The flakes are more reactive than the grains. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW6UDshXEg0&list=UUq2T-8196Q3osXjBksFVbLw&index=10 my intention would be to make one another metallic powder having the same effect of Ti but cheaper. Zr is expensive, Ferro Cerium and Hafnium too. In 2013 I will work hard at it and I'll put them abreast of events. I'm pretty sure that the Niobium powder gives some effect with black powder. And if ever you come strolling in Revelion or carnival of Rio de Janeiro can contact me I'll give you a free sample of my Ti flake and granular for tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 It sounds like interesting material, but the processing to win it looks fairly involved (= expensive, I think). If you can get some to experiment with, let us know what you learn about it. Don't forget to first do your homework and learn as much as you can, then proceed with caution... Have fun. WSM I just grind chips Ti here in Brasil, however industrially producing titanium powder occurs in more complex ways, in addition to production from ore http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYRRk_ky5ZI There are two ways of producing it industrially. Croll method Armstrong method Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Here in Brazil is one of the biggest fireworker in the world, he came from Germany, his name is Toivo Newman, PhD in chemistry and I've talked to him many times and it was he who encouraged me to produce Ti powder and Magnalium, because imports of these materials was difficult.A curious thing happened yesterday I was searching the web about niobium and came across this comment http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/forum/topic/5308-niobium-powder/ I'll try to talk to him and take some questions, and tell them anything new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeee Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Kleberrios,Tryed opening the link on your post but it loads forever and does not open.What kind of info did they have on niobium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Kleberrios I always learn something from your posts. Very cool information. I do hope if I am ever in Brasil that you would allow me to come see your operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Kleberrios,Tryed opening the link on your post but it loads forever and does not open.What kind of info did they have on niobium? My question is whether the niobium powder has the same characteristics of powders of Ti, Zr, because the niobium powder is pyrophoric the mesh 200. The Niobium alloys are composed of Ti, Zr, Hafinium soon seem quite promising. Now he wanted to know if the pure ore would have the same characteristics of Ti, Zr or the ore would have to be industrialized as in the video above to generate metallic niobium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 The ore is going to be generally useless until it is refined into metallic niobium. What sort of alloys do they make between niobium and titanium, zirconium, and hafnium? I only found a little info on ferroniobium, and that seems to contains only a few percent at most niobium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 The ore is going to be generally useless until it is refined into metallic niobium. What sort of alloys do they make between niobium and titanium, zirconium, and hafnium? I only found a little info on ferroniobium, and that seems to contains only a few percent at most niobium. Actually you're righ,t ore are just stones and nothing else. Niobium ore is equal to the titanium ore, does not generate sparks. Some companies already work with niobium/ hafinium/titanium/alloys http://www.goodfellow.com/E/Niobium-Zirconium-Alloy.html http://www.astm.org/Standards/B654.htm However what I would have to get are turning of niobium alloy and mill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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