Star rolling problems

[PyroCube]

Hi all

 

 

I am rolling stars for a while now, but I haven`t got any good results.

My star roller is quite small, it`s 8 inch in diameter.

 

 

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/8342/dsc01065q.jpg

I know it`s a bit dirty i I haven`t cleaned it yet.

 

I roll mostly at 60 rpm, and I wet the stars with 75% water and 25% alcohol.

When I roll colored stars, they turn out in very different sizes and shapes.

They aren`t perfect round, a bit raspberry like.

 

 

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7596/dsc01067fz.jpg

 

What can I do to improve my result?

 

Once, I`ve rolled a batch of TT stars, and they turned out pretty good, I dont know what I made different that time?

I never had that good result again with colored stars.

 

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6899/dsc01070h.jpg

 

 

Greets, PyroCube

[pyrokid]

To achieve good results when rolling stars, you need to carefully control the application of solvent and composition. More applications of smaller amounts will give better results.

 

 

As usual, practice makes perfect.

[Anarchy08]

definitely an area that i have had probs with

in my experience add more alcohol ;helps loose the stickeyness of dextrin (40;60) charcoal stars suck to roll when its a milled fine powder.

wet them completely to the point that they stick to the roller, but thats okay use a gloved hand get in there and rub them off the wall until you add some dry powder . if you not dirty your not rolling stars properly, add smaller increments of dry powder to separate them and just let them roll. larger batches help enormously with consistency. after getting them really wet you will start to get a feel for the water inside of them coming to the outside and allowing you to just keep adding small amounts of powder.

I learned to roll wikid raspberries before I learned to roll round stars.

use sorting screens to get your sizing right after you have discovered the knack.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Anarchy08

[spitfire]

Like Anarchy08 said, rolling larger batches helps a lot. There are some compositions that are prone to get ''bumpy'' more than others. In extreme cases (high red gum) it might help to first damp your composition slightly WITHOUT dextrin, and crush it again when it is dry trough a sieve. It will roll a lot nicer. To start it up is a bit more difficult, but once they caught some composition it works great. Make sure there are no large chunks left, though.

[bob]

you can put some clay on your star cores this helps a lot

I roll TT which people say is a hard one to roll with out adding some thing to it which I don't

I roll about 500 stars at a time if I try to roll like 50 I"ll get bumps but with say 200 there is no worry of bumps just like anarchy said

it takes time to master star rolling but it's worth it

bob

[Potassiumchlorate]

I tested spray paint. That is good too.

 

But the best might be microstars. I cheat a bit and use commercial ones

[PyroCube]

Bumps are not my biggest problem, they are quite round at the time.

But I rolled a batch of green stars today, 1/4 of the stars were around 8mm, 1/4 around

5mm and 1/2 didn`t grew up very much, they were nearly as big as my cores.

What`s my problem?

[bob]

stick your hand in there and help the smaller ones to the surface right be for putting on comp

bob

[Pyrophury]

Spiking and a large disparity in star size are both disadvantages of the spray 'n sprinkle method of star rolling, as well as it being quite time consuming. Starting with cut cores about 3/16 - 1/4" you can quickly make 3/8" round stars using the toro method. It is especially suited to charcoal streamer type compositions as it eliminates the raspberry effect, and all the stars get evenly coated so they grow at the same rate.

[PyroCube]

Can I roll colored stars with the toro method as well?

[Zumber]

Spiking and a large disparity in star size are both disadvantages of the spray 'n sprinkle method of star rolling, as well as it being quite time consuming. Starting with cut cores about 3/16 - 1/4" you can quickly make 3/8" round stars using the toro method. It is especially suited to charcoal streamer type compositions as it eliminates the raspberry effect, and all the stars get evenly coated so they grow at the same rate.

what is toro method?

[Potassiumchlorate]

Could someone please tell about the toro method in details? I have read about it and even seen it on YT, but it feels like I could never succeed in it.

[PyroCube]

Look here:

http://www.pyrotubes.co.uk/apps/forums/topics/show/5985054

There`s also a video tutorial.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Thank you!

 

Is the Toro method just used for coating the cores? For if you pour a slurry on bigger stars, won't they fall apart, like when you spray on too much water?

[dagabu]

Thank you!

 

Is the Toro method just used for coating the cores? For if you pour a slurry on bigger stars, won't they fall apart, like when you spray on too much water?

 

You can build up stars from cores but not make cores with Toro.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywd0ked2r-o

 

 

-dag

[Potassiumchlorate]

Hm, it seems like he adds lots of dry comp but very little of the slurry. I think you must have an instinctive feeling for it to make it work properly.

[spitfire]

Very nice video that shows the method, but the process can be much faster. Once the stars have grown to this size, you can dump in a lot more of slurry at one time, i use a small soup-sleeve that holds 4 - 5 times the amount in this video. The batch of stars is practically the same as what i roll on an average pyro day Look at those Japanese/Chinese video's on you tube, they just dump coffee cups of composition in it, and they come out perfectly. What i REALLY want to see, is how other people start the rolling, with different cores and especially without a core. I mean industrial way, not homemade way that takes ages to get some stars at least a little bit round and uniform in size. It just ain't the way it should be done. Today i decided to roll a batch of red stars the old way, the way i learned it. By hand in a bowl. The result is somewhat disappointing. A lot of nice stars, but so different in size, that it has no real use but mines and other devices to basically get rid of it. I hand-picked the bigger and odd shaped ones out, and crushed them to see why the deforming happened. To my surprise most of them had no core at all. (i used pvc beads as a core) they must have formed when i scratched excess material of the wall and rolled on. This is important information for all of us and i would like to see you share your experience too! We all benefit.

[dagabu]

What i REALLY want to see, is how other people start the rolling, with different cores and especially without a core. I mean industrial way, not homemade way that takes ages to get some stars at least a little bit round and uniform in size. It just ain't the way it should be done.

 

I know two guys that make and shells here in the USA, one of them uses 1.5mm molecular sieves to roll stars on. I has a sample from PGI some years ago and they worked well.

 

-dag

[bob]

Very nice video that shows the method, but the process can be much faster. Once the stars have grown to this size, you can dump in a lot more of slurry at one time, i use a small soup-sleeve that holds 4 - 5 times the amount in this video. The batch of stars is practically the same as what i roll on an average pyro day Look at those Japanese/Chinese video's on you tube, they just dump coffee cups of composition in it, and they come out perfectly. What i REALLY want to see, is how other people start the rolling, with different cores and especially without a core. I mean industrial way, not homemade way that takes ages to get some stars at least a little bit round and uniform in size. It just ain't the way it should be done. Today i decided to roll a batch of red stars the old way, the way i learned it. By hand in a bowl. The result is somewhat disappointing. A lot of nice stars, but so different in size, that it has no real use but mines and other devices to basically get rid of it. I hand-picked the bigger and odd shaped ones out, and crushed them to see why the deforming happened. To my surprise most of them had no core at all. (i used pvc beads as a core) they must have formed when i scratched excess material of the wall and rolled on. This is important information for all of us and i would like to see you share your experience too! We all benefit.

yes when they are a few that are not round (not spiking but just a weird shap) then it most likly does not have a core

 

bob

[Mumbles]

When you're really good you can use water droplets or grains of sand to start star cores. I've done the water droplets thing. It's quite tricky to get just right, but is a little more forgiving on large scale.

 

As far as having many different size of stars in your roller, this seems to be most influenced by impatience. Adding composition before all the wetting water has equilibriated, or unequal spraying on the stars. Someone also mentioned that adding the powder to empty spot in front of the star cascade can help to prevent this. The biggest stars tend roll to the top (especially with an inadequate cascade), so adding to the top of the stars will grow the larger stars, and leave the smaller stars without as much composition. Adding out in front of the stars will run the powder underneath to the smaller stars to try to get them back up to size.

 

I've generally seen the toro method done more similar to the video pyrocube posted and how spitfire described. Add the slurry until the stars get a bit shiny, but uniformly coated, and then soak it up with dry composition. It's hard to tell exactly what is happening in the video Dag posted, but it does look like he's adding an awful lot of dry comp compared to the slurry he adds. One other tidbit I've picked up with the toro method is that you need to use thinner slurry for smaller stars, and can graduate to a thicker slurry for larger stars. This probably has to do with the mass of stars, and tendency to stick together.

[dagabu]

When you're really good you can use water droplets or grains of sand to start star cores. I've done the water droplets thing. It's quite tricky to get just right, but is a little more forgiving on large scale.

 

As far as having many different size of stars in your roller, this seems to be most influenced by impatience. Adding composition before all the wetting water has equilibriated, or unequal spraying on the stars. Someone also mentioned that adding the powder to empty spot in front of the star cascade can help to prevent this. The biggest stars tend roll to the top (especially with an inadequate cascade), so adding to the top of the stars will grow the larger stars, and leave the smaller stars without as much composition. Adding out in front of the stars will run the powder underneath to the smaller stars to try to get them back up to size.

 

I've generally seen the toro method done more similar to the video pyrocube posted and how spitfire described. Add the slurry until the stars get a bit shiny, but uniformly coated, and then soak it up with dry composition. It's hard to tell exactly what is happening in the video Dag posted, but it does look like he's adding an awful lot of dry comp compared to the slurry he adds. One other tidbit I've picked up with the toro method is that you need to use thinner slurry for smaller stars, and can graduate to a thicker slurry for larger stars. This probably has to do with the mass of stars, and tendency to stick together.

 

Water droplets huh? Sounds like a challenge next winter.

 

-dag

[Potassiumchlorate]

Like I say, it's an instinctive feeling for it. The first time I made a blue comp, which was an AP blue from Hardt, there were actually "stars" formed when mixing the comp with water, although then I intended to make a blue Bengal.