PyroLearner1989 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Hey APC, I have been thumbing over this idea for a few years now (since I've turned 21). I would be really interested in being able to obtain aerial 1.3g shells, and to do so I need either a type 20 or type 54 permit (license). Before we look at the whole age thing, I am 23 and not a typical person of my age, more responsible beyond my years. I have printed off all the paperwork for how to get a license / permit from the BATFE. I live in nebraska and I'm unsure exactly of all the paperwork I would exactly need to fill out (tried the nebraska fire marshal website to to no avail? I would like to be able to purchase 1.3g display fireworks for my personal use, if constructing my own fireworks (type 20) and if that would cover all the bases then I would be interested in doing that. I probably should pick up a orange book from skylighter on the BATFE regulations. Can anyone assist me in finding out about the NEB regs and the full process, I would personally be thrilled to be able to be able to do this. I seem to fit the background check completely well (only ticket ever was for littering trash (dumped a gallon of mixed oil, antifreeze and transmission oil out in the country, went back and cleaned it up). Thanks for all the help, Devin M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Hello Devin,I am 22 and living in Michigan with a type 20 license. I listed just about all the advice I can give about the process of obtaining a license or permit here: http://www.grassrootsdiy.com/?page_id=84 About half way down the page is a link to a site that provides excellent information on the laws concerning fireworks in each state. The only other thing I might tell you is that a type 20 is usually no harder to obtain than a 54, so it might be worth it to pay the extra $100 to get the upgrade just in case the laws change and you all of a sudden need a type 20 to participate in hobbyist building activities. For a type 20 instead of a 54 the only additional questions you are likely to encounter will be in regard to where you plan to make your fireworks (example: do you have manufacturing facilities built in accordance to regulation for commercially making fireworks?), to which you can reply that any manufacture you participate in will be completely outside of commerce and solely for personal hobbyist use. If they ask for a specific location where you will be building, direct them to an outbuilding or a picnic table on your property, or, say you would like to build hobbyist fireworks as part of a large organization such as the PGI at their conventions, and though a manufacturing license is not required to do so you are getting it preemptively in case the laws change to make it required. Be sure before speaking to an agent to have read through the Orange Book, as well as all the ATF newsletters that have been published since 2007. It would not hurt to have that material on hand during the interview as well so you have the specific regulation to discuss with the investigator if he or yourself do not remember every detail. Quite frequently the investigators will believe things that are not correct regarding regulation on fireworks because they are more used to dealing with other forms of explosives, so it is good to have everything on hand. For example, before applying for my license I spoke with the current director of the entire explosives branch of the ATF, and he told me flat out that making fireworks without a license was illegal under every circumstance. By the end of a long and respectful conversation we had gone over the regulation together and he realized that he had been wrong about his initial understanding. Same story with the investigator that gave me my license interview. Edited July 4, 2012 by NightHawkInLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) double post* Edited July 4, 2012 by NightHawkInLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MondoMage Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hello Devin,I am 22 and living in Michigan with a type 20 license. I listed just about all the advice I can give about the process of obtaining a license or permit here: http://www.grassroot...com/?page_id=84 I tried to follow the link posted, and all I get is a "Problem loading page" error screen. I really want to see what you posted. Of course, the error might be my guardian angel trying to tell me something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogbarry Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The license model has changed, there is no type 20 any more. To purchase 1.3 you need a user of explosives permit. http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5400-13.pdf If you wish to manufacture commercially, you need a manufacturers license but most of us hobbyists don't need this. You should probably not get the "limited" permit as you cannot transport Interstate with it and I believe you are limited to a certain number of transactions. What you will need to acquire a license is storage. This is the biggest issue for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroLearner1989 Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 The license model has changed, there is no type 20 any more. To purchase 1.3 you need a user of explosives permit. http://www.atf.gov/f...f-f-5400-13.pdf If you wish to manufacture commercially, you need a manufacturers license but most of us hobbyists don't need this. You should probably not get the "limited" permit as you cannot transport Interstate with it and I believe you are limited to a certain number of transactions. What you will need to acquire a license is storage. This is the biggest issue for most. So with a user of explosives, can we purchase and build our own shells, etc, etc (like we would if there was still a type 20?) I would not want to make commercially I would just want to make my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I second NightHawkInLight:Spend the $ and get the type 20. If you have property, and a safe area to construct, you will be happier with the 20. It has much more flexibility, and allows the user more room to grow into the hobby. It sounds like you both are VERY responsible for your ages, and Im sure they ( the FireMarshal ) will be impressed when you express understanding of the laws. I too am working towards obtaining a type20 in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogbarry Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I second NightHawkInLight:Spend the $ and get the type 20. If you have property, and a safe area to construct, you will be happier with the 20. It has much more flexibility, and allows the user more room to grow into the hobby. It sounds like you both are VERY responsible for your ages, and Im sure they ( the FireMarshal ) will be impressed when you express understanding of the laws. I too am working towards obtaining a type20 in the near future. If type 20 = "manufacturer of explosives" and type 54 = "user of explosives" I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the model had changed, however, I have a user's permit and is does state the type as "54". My ATF agent thought I needed a manufacturing license when I explained what I wanted to do. He called the office and was told I did not need a manufacturing license. The reasons I did not apply for the manufacturing license are as follows: 1) I really don't have a specific place of manufacturing, my club holds build seminars in various locations, usually, a members property where (unlike me) they have the required distances. I thought that if I applied for the manufacturing license, they would want to inspect construction area. 2) I can do what I want to do without the type 20 (or "manufacturing" license). Having said that, if you have everything needed to qualify for a manufacturers license, there are advantages. I know some supply vendors specifically require the "manufacturer's" license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundColorfulBird Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Hello. I'm new to pyrotechnic forums but not to forums in general. Nor to fireworks. I have been getting display permits from my State Firemarshal's Office just to goof around, but lately a BATFE license would be awesome. Reading this thread is helping me understand the kinds of permits/licenses. Thanks! Edited July 6, 2012 by SoundColorfulBird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrojig Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Cogberry... You do have a good point there. I guess it is all about your needs, which lic# to get. The 20 allows you to sell If Im not mistaken , and this could come in handy if your helping a movie crew or special effects, like a indoors shows , etc. I believe your right, the 54 allows the hobbyist to do just about anything that they want except H.E.'s and large amounts of flash. Storage is a major deal with both license , unless you build and shoot on site. Otherwise the proper storage and distances are required. Now it doesnt have to be on your property....., if one of your trusted friends or family has the location, it is just a matter of paperwork, and clearance from the firemarshal with a inspection, and state laws allowance. I still too am learning these details , so forgive me if im off a little here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I do not know much about requirements for entering commerce, so I will leave that alone. I do know that manufacturing for your own personal use is going to be different from manufacturing for profit or a business. When entering into commerce you will also need to start dealing with people like the DOT, as well as wanting to set up a formal company. It seems there is a grey area as far as donating your products for commercial shows or uses. If you actually want to get into special effects or manufacturing for shows, I'd get definitive answers from the proper authorities and not necessarily trust a forum. Generally there was a different license for this. There used to be different licensed for HE or LE manufacture. The places I'm familiar with that did special effects or proximate pyro did not have the HE version. In most cases for us a users license will suffice. In essence we licensed to use pyrotechnics, and we manufacture under the federal guidelines that state that a license is not required for manufacture for personal use so long as it is still stored properly. State laws will vary, so it's best to talk to them as well to make sure you have all of your bases covered. I agree with cogbarry on this. If you can satisfy all the requirements for a manufacturing licenses, you might as well do that. It will certainly make things easier along the way, and probably make you a little safer or more legal in the long run. There will be no question about your plans at least. As others have mentioned a manufacturing license can make obtaining certain supplies and chemicals easier in some cases. This is one area that condensing all of the manufacturing licenses into one possibly has made things easier for us. As I said, there used to be high explosive and low explosives manufacturing license, as well as a separate fireworks license. The companies with licensing requirements would often only deal with people having the type 20 high explosive manufacturing license. I believe this comes with the need for a high explosive magazine, where as fireworks require a lower class magazine. I know multiple people who had a small type 1 magazine to meet the requirements, as well as a larger, most regularly used low explosive magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbart1 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Hello...new to the forum..I am looking to get legal. I do not have a large enough piece of property where I live. Does anyone know if I am gonna have a problem if I plan on building and storing fireworks on family land in a different county than I live? I plan on setting a 20ft storage container and building an additional magazine inside. Edited July 13, 2012 by philbart1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogbarry Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Cogberry... You do have a good point there. I guess it is all about your needs, which lic# to get. The 20 allows you to sell If Im not mistaken , and this could come in handy if your helping a movie crew or special effects, like a indoors shows , etc. I believe your right, the 54 allows the hobbyist to do just about anything that they want except H.E.'s and large amounts of flash. Storage is a major deal with both license , unless you build and shoot on site. Otherwise the proper storage and distances are required. Now it doesnt have to be on your property....., if one of your trusted friends or family has the location, it is just a matter of paperwork, and clearance from the firemarshal with a inspection, and state laws allowance. I still too am learning these details , so forgive me if im off a little here. For me the answer was contingency storage. I work for a display company and now the club I belong to has a mag. I have an unattached garage and a job box but I don't have the distances. ....and I know, the ATF doesn't specify distances but try telling your fire/police chief that. The ATF does require (or at least my ATF agent told me) that we get local approval of our mags. I'm actually not sure if you need to have an approved build location for a type 20 or not. I was under the impression they would ask where we are building and that is why I went for the users permit (still type 54 I guess) rather than the manufacturing license (still a type 20 I guess). However, when I had my interview with the ATF, my agent thought I may need a manufacturer's license when I told him I would be building at club events. He was ready to simply change my application as if it were no big deal. He called the office to check and they told him I didn't need the manufacturer's license. My app process then continued with the original user's permit. Now I wonder if I shouldn't have gone for the type 20 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LehighValleyPyro Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I didn't see it emphasized so I just want to point out that what cogberry said is key. Don't make the same mistake I did. START locally. Local laws CAN be different than state and federal laws. The sh*t will hit the fan quickly if you don't have approval from your local AHJ. For example, in my township, zoning restrictions prevent me from storing explosives. Nothing I can do about it, so I have contingency storage and it works for me. Start with your local "Authority Having Jurisdiction", which may be the fire chief, police chief, etc. before you spend money on a mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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