taiwanluthiers Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I used Shimzu green brillant and ended up getting a yellowish candy green... I suspect its not supposed to be that way... Shimizu green star brilliant - high temp Barium nitrate 42Magnesium (60 mesh coated with linseed oil) 25PVC 15Lampblack or Softwood airfloat 2Potassium perchlorate 16Add NC-solution in acetone, no water! I did not have the magalium yet so I used the 325 spherical aluminum I have for now, chlorowax for pvc, and willow charcoal. I also used an organically fueled green and it also gave me the same yellowish green color. Hardt Green Star #4Barium nitrate 30 Potassium perchlorate 44Red gum 13Charcoal airfloat 4PVC 5Dextrin 4Add 25% alcohol / 75% water Is that normal? Edited June 27, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 How did you test is? As stars or a loose powder? Were you close or far away from it? Aluminium won't give such a pure colour as Mg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 I tested it as a loose pile... if I made a star I need to make a larger batch... when I am doing something I am unsure of I make one gram of composition and test it loose. If it looks promising then I will go further. The second comp had no metal but still I got light green. Is this usual for organically fueled stars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I tested it as a loose pile... if I made a star I need to make a larger batch... when I am doing something I am unsure of I make one gram of composition and test it loose. If it looks promising then I will go further. The second comp had no metal but still I got light green. Is this usual for organically fueled stars? You should test them as stars and watch them from a distance, at least 10 meters, I'd say. I think it's hard to get a deep organic green without barium chlorate. Nitrate is better than carbonate, but barium chlorate plays in a division completely of its own. The other guys here often say "It's expensive", "It's poisonous", "It's very sensitive", but it undeniably gives the best green. When you have gotten hold of MgAl, try Kyle Kepley's Emerald Green: Barium nitrate 50Parlon 18 Magnalium 12 Potassium perchlorate 8 Sulfur 5 Charcoal 5 Red gum 2Dextrin +5 Edited June 27, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't find Barium Chlorate, I guess I can make some from sodium chlorate but how do I get the sodium out so that I don't get nothing but yellow? What is it about barium chlorate that makes it so good anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I can't find Barium Chlorate, I guess I can make some from sodium chlorate but how do I get the sodium out so that I don't get nothing but yellow? What is it about barium chlorate that makes it so good anyways? Well, getting the sodium chlorate out of it is tricky. The beautiful thing with barium chlorate is that it carries its own chlorine, which is what gives the green colour. So when it gives off its oxygen to the fuel, you immediately get gaseous barium chloride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 It's hard to tell if the first formula was washed out because you tested it as a powder, or because you substituted aluminum for magnesium. Both may have an effect. It's possible to make aluminum fueled color compositions that have excellent colors, but you may find you need to use a more reactive form like flake, and possibly do some tweaking of the formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I wonder if your barium nitrate is impure? If there was a little strontium in it, that would cause a shift toward yellow. Barium and strontium are often found in the same ores and are difficult to separate because they're so similar chemically, so low grade industrial barium nitrate is probably contaminated. You could tell for sure if you look at the flame through a spectrometer. Build a CD Spectrometer (pdf). http://www.amateurspectroscopy.com/Xenon-Barium-Strontium.jpg The barium chloride spectrum wouldn't have the red and yellow lines, so if you see red and yellow lines in the spectrum you probably haven't got enough chlorine donor. Sodium contamination would show a single bright yellow line. Presence of the extra set of blue-green lines to the left would confirm strontium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) It is unlikely, because all the color chemicals I bought are all reagent grade, so it should be at least 99.9% pure. I might suspect that if it was technical grade... or its possible it looks washed out because I burned it as loose powder... Edited June 28, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Then try compressing it into a star, to get the chlorine donor more intimately incorporated with the gas producing chemicals. If it's still yellowish try upping the chlorine donor. You need a little more PVC than Parlon or Saran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Then try compressing it into a star, to get the chlorine donor more intimately incorporated with the gas producing chemicals. If it's still yellowish try upping the chlorine donor. You need a little more PVC than Parlon or Saran. I am using chlorowax, do I need to modify its ratio for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I am using chlorowax, do I need to modify its ratio for this? Is it the 70% chlorowax? In that case you don't need to modify anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I believe it is the 70% chlorowax... at least that what it says on the bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 OK, then it should be perfectly OK. You just need to mix it really good. I use to mix small organic batches (10 grams or less) by carefully rubbing the composition with a wooden spoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 If your chlorowax is a solid, it's around 70%. At least from the US supplier, all the lower chlorinated grades from 40-63% Cl are liquids. While they may be labeled as reagent grade, such terminology is only as good as the quality control preformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I can confirm that its capable of producing green... I just made a bengal comp, 70 barium nitrate, 16 potassium chlorate, 13 shellac (was originally red gum), and 1 paraffin oil (did not use it) I got a really nice green from the loose powder. At first I used charcoal instead of shellac or red gum (because all of my shellac are all in big pieces rather than fine powder) and it did not produce any green... which meant the charcoal made the comp burn too hot causing the color to wash out (or the charcoal contains sodium) For the sake of sanity, should I just go ahead and order some red gum, instead of finding ways to powder the shellac? Edited June 28, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Well, shellac gives a very pure colour and is the traditional firework resin. But if you intend to make perchlorate based comps, red gum is more suited for it. When it comes to flake shellac, you can dissolve it in boiling alcohol, 100 parts of shellac and 80 parts alcohol, by volume. This is good for Bengal fires. Edited June 28, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Nah... I think I'll go with chlorates and prime any stars with sulfurless bp. Chlorates are just much cheaper. Also how do I boil alcohol without having a pot of "Flaming Moe's"? Edited June 28, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Nah... I think I'll go with chlorates and prime any stars with sulfurless bp. Chlorates are just much cheaper. Also how do I boil alcohol without having a pot of "Flaming Moe's"? I used to put it in a glass jar, the kind that you have jam etc in. Then I put the glass jar in a pan with water. Alcohol boils at 79oC, i.e. before the water boils, so the water just has to be hot but not boiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 I just tried the emerald green comp, because I just got the magalium today. VERY nice green! Well it looks kinda light burned in a loose pile, but it will look much better in a star and far away. thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco_1322 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Does anyone have a formula that actually burns a lemon lime green? I tried a formula the other day that was labeled that from United Nuclear. It didn't really have colored, it was a washed out white kind of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) In that Spanish composition file it says that if you add 2% sodium oxalate to the green comps, you will get lime green. I think cryolite might also do. The Spanish greens are: Potassium perchlorate 24Barium nitrate 24Barium carbonate 11Magnalium <63µm 15Parlon 12Red gum 9Dextrin 4 and Potassium perchlorate 18Barium nitrate 45Magnalium <63µm 14Parlon 9Red gum 10Dextrin 4 Edited July 2, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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