taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 That is to say, I successfully created blue!!! I used shimzu blue #1 Potassium perchlorate60.8Copper carbonate12.3Parlon13.1Red gum9Dextrin4.8 I do not have parlon so I substituted it with paraffin chloride, shellac for red gum. I did a loose pile test burn and got a nice blue flame! Well not like dark blue but then since its a loose pile, you can't really say much there. Will make proper stars and test it in a star gun.Copper carbonate is so expensive though... but copper oxide is even more expensive. Will try with greens next (got some barium carbonate where the sun don't shine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Copper(II)oxide is simply made by heating copper carbonate up at 300oC. It's absolutely safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Is there any advantage to using copper II oxide than copper carbonate? I know a lot of carbonates are used for the veline color system (which is what I am planning on going with because it allows me to mix and match colors). When I tried the same recipe with barium carbonate all I got was a white/orange flame, nothing blue like the copper carbonate. I notice that barium nitrate is in every green formulations, unless its barium chlorate in that case the chlorate is used. Is there any reason why barium nitrate must be present in every green formulation but barium carbonate alone wouldn't give me a green flame? Barium nitrate is expensive too, because they only have reagent/USP grades (only common food/cosmetic chemicals are available in technical grades here... like potassium nitrate for example). Maybe I should just go KNO3 + BaCl2 -> Ba(NO3)2 + KCl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think the copper(II)oxide gives a better colour than the carbonate, though some people think it's the other way around. Barium carbonate needs a metallic fuel to make a decent green. The nitrate just needs a chlorine donor. I prefer barium chlorate. Just a resin fuel or even dextrin will make it deep green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I can't get barium chlorate, and I prefer not using chlorates in a composition anyways. Unless I can get potassium chlorate to dissolve in water then I can convert the barium chloride I have into chlorates. Do you have any formula for barium carbonate greens with a metallic fuel? I tried searching on pyroguide.com and everything they have on green stars require a barium oxidizer of some kind. Scratch that, I see there is a green star comp that uses barium carbonate but it requires AP, which I can't seem to find either (nobody would sell them), and besides they are more expensive too. Edited June 25, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Hm, maybe some strontium carbonate red can be made with barium carbonate instead. Like this one: Potassium perchlorate 50Strontium carbonate 18Magnesium 14Parlon 14Red gum 4 If you use barium carbonate instead, it might be a lovely green, well at least an acceptable one. Edited June 25, 2012 by Potassiumchlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Would it work if I replace magnesium with magalium? Edited June 25, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would think so, I use Strontium Nitrate, MgAl, Parlon, and Red Gum for red stars, and you can sub Barium Nitrate 1:1 to get green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I would think so, I use Strontium Nitrate, MgAl, Parlon, and Red Gum for red stars, and you can sub Barium Nitrate 1:1 to get green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I forgot the Spanish strontium carbonate red: Potassium perchlorate 48Strontium carbonate 17Red gum 11Parlon 10MgAl 11Dextrin 4 Barium needs more chlorine, so maybe a small adjustment like this would be good: Potassium perchlorate 48Barium carbonate 17Red gum 8Parlon 14MgAl 10Dextrin 4 Both add up to 101 parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Would this work? I tried a formula like this (didn't add the "red gum" which is shellac though) and all I got was a white/orange flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, strontium carbonate doesn't give a red as deep as the nitrate, and you should add the shellac as well. But it should be an acceptable red. Strontium chlorate would be the best for red, analogous to the barium salt for green, but it's hygroscopic. 50AE has tried strontium bromate, which was very deep. Two hundred years ago people would have considered even the carbonate greens of today as perfectly acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was not adding the shellac because the shellac I was using was dewaxed Astra shellac I got in Germany. Its designed for instrument making and so its HARD, in fact I cannot crush or powder it with a mortar and pestle at all. Something tells me I should just use regular waxed shellac instead of dewaxed shellac. Sometimes in frustration I simply take some of the liquid shellac solutions I have prepared (for french polishing) and just added it to the star comp. It takes days to prepare the shellac solution because it dissolves very slowly in alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Green stars without barium nitrate/chlorate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 I'll try it out once I get the magalium. I wish I can get them in Taiwan but all they have are 325 mesh aluminum powder. Looks like I will have to try and make my own dark aluminum when the ball mill is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I've had good luck with approximately this green formula. Potassium Perchlorate 35% Barium Carbonate 25% Magnalium (200 mesh) 14% Parlon 13% Red Gum 7% Dextrin 6% Also, you can't really make your own dark Al at home. The process is much more complicated than just milling coarser atomized or flake aluminums. You may want to look into making your own MgAl if you're going to be milling metals at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I just got some barium nitrate, lets hope I get better luck. I am not sure about making my own MgAl because I am not comfortable with smelting metal, but was wondering if someone sells MgAl block ( because I like some coarse MgAl as well and pyro suppliers do not have them). Another problem with making MgAl is that while Al is easy to get (they're really common, old coke cans, window rails, etc.) magnesium isn't so easy to get. I cannot find them save for magnesium powder (very expensive), ribbons (nice, but also expensive), and firestarter kits (also expensive). How exactly are dark Al made? I read Ehow articles that says to ball mill Al foil then add charcoal. Edited June 26, 2012 by taiwanluthiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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