beastmode986 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well i am wondering if all this is legal? I have always wondered if making rockets,shells,mines,etc is legal. I know some people get explosives manufacturing licenses as well. I live in the awful state of illinois and i want to make sure its legal for me to do this stuff so any advice is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I have read that Federal law says its ok to make these items but it's not ok to transport, store, or sell them. So basically you have to make and use it the same day. If you are taking completed devices to an event, then you will have to transfer it to a license holder or to the club license. State and local laws can (and often are) be significantly stricter than Federal laws. I sometimes wonder if its even safe to practice pyrotechnic in the US anymore because of huge amount of paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The previous poster is correct. On a federal level it is legal to manufacture your own pyrotechnics, however they must be stored in a suitable magazine after 24hr of finishing the device. This causes you to either shoot it, or find a magazine to place it in. The magazine does not need to be ATF approved, but it needs to be able to pass an inspection should it ever be required. You may want to look into joining a local club and see if they have any advice. Depending on where in the state you live, you may want to look into the Heartland pyrotechnics association, the Wisconsin Pyrotechnics Arts Guild, MoPyro, Bluegrass Pyro Guild, or Iowa Pyrotechnic Association. I do not know the Illinois laws, but have heard that it can be difficult to actually get a license in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Find and join a local well regarded pyro club, in your state. They should know what the regs are in your area. Whatever you do DON'T ever p1ss off the neighbours, or your wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode986 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 lol ok thanks and i have never heard of any pyro clubs in my area though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Find and join a local well regarded pyro club, in your state. They should know what the regs are in your area. Whatever you do DON'T ever p1ss off the neighbours, or your wife. Great advice there Arthur. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Also DONT give anyone any reason to be paranoid... being a pyro is reason enough, having the wrong religion and even ethnicity can and does often bring additional scrutiny. While they will never be a reason to obtain a warrant you can be sure that will be the motivation for them to look harder (in addition to being a hobbyist pyro of course). It's not one thing that gets you, but often a combination of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Try to go as a spectator to huge numbers of professionally fired fireworks shows within your area. Get to know what the fireworks are called and what they look like. This way you can chat about fireworks knowledgeably without blowing the place up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 lol ok thanks and i have never heard of any pyro clubs in my area though. I rattled off 5 different clubs in my post that may be close to you depending where in Illinois you're located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode986 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 ok thanks ill look, also what are usually the age groups in these clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The typical age is generally older. I'd say the median age is usually somewhere around 45-50. That doesn't mean they're not welcoming to us younger guys. I started attending club shoots when I was 19. I've never felt looked down upon or excluded, though I may not be able to participate in all conversations as I'm at least 30 years off from knee replacements and grandkids. I'm in my mid 20's now and almost always the youngest "real" pyro there. People will often bring their kids along and stuff, but I'm primarily talking about people attending independently for the pyro. I'm assuming you're on the younger side of things. People normally will keep an extra eye on new members, especially so for younger people. You'll probably be underestimated a bit at first, but if you can show you have a solid head on your shoulders and are competent you'll have no issues what so ever. It can be an advantage too. Many times the older, more experienced individuals will sort of take you under their wing and share secrets they may not normally with someone else. I've gleaned a lot excellent information. Even now that people have caught on that I really know my stuff, I can still get some secrets now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Mum, forgive me for being completely out of line here but there is an element within your club that is stagnant and I hope that you and others in your club may one day see the necessity of not only "keeping an eye on new members" but casting a forgiving eye on those that desperately miss the members not in the position of leadership and can reach out in the hand of forgiveness and friendship, mend the bridges and accept the apologies of a rank newby so that he may return to the fold. The WPAG is an incredible club and anyone not a member should be looking at this club as a home for pyrotechnics. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Mumbles, very well put. I am 29 and club members have been very welcoming about helping me learn the ropes. You are very right about the conversations about new knees and grandkids, but it seems most are happy to share their knowledge to keep building alive in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I've been a member of the WPAG for 6 years now, but haven't been able to attend quite as much the last couple of years. I do my best to stay out of the politics of everything, as it really ruins the fun and excitement of everything for me. In that time I've noticed some improvements I really like, and some things I really dislike within the club. I still really enjoy attending when I can make it mostly for the people. It definitely has problems and has done things I do not agree with, but I keep coming back. Given where I live now, I've been trying to attend more HPA and MPAG shoots. Like the WPAG, there are things I like and don't care for with them as well. That is probably the nature of any club or organized group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Given where I live now, I've been trying to attend more HPA and MPAG shoots. Like the WPAG, there are things I like and don't care for with them as well. That is probably the nature of any club or organized group. Let me know what it is you don't like about the HPA. I like to get feedback, positive as well as negative. Currently we are one of the more progressive clubs around and are looking forward to do new things and make improvements all our members can benefit from. PM me or bash me in public, whichever you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode986 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Well guys im still in highschool so there is a huge age difference lol would they still welcome someone of my age? I am very very interested in this hobby and its a passion but i want to get much more educated on it and i want to learn all of the safety precautions i should take. also can someone answer these questions or give me a link that answers them? Why exactly do certain chemicals react how they do when combined with others? I am mainly wondering why certain chemicals can become explosive or combustable.what books should i get to learn more?what safety precautions should i take? i already know the obvious one(goggles,gloves,etc)what are the main components in most of the compounds involved in this hobby? I am referring to terms like oxidizer, i know what an oxidizer is but what are the other components?the fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Oh boy, this is right in my back yard. First: bm986: If you're still in HS, take every science class(especially chemistry) and pay attention. There are nuggets of info in every area, chemistry, physics, biology........... I'm not kidding. You might not think any of that applies to your future, but in this case it absolutely will. Use your age and inexperience as a learning advantage. No disrespect, just telling you to use what you have to your best advantage. Heck, I'm even more susceptible to telling "young'uns" (again no disrespect intended) more of what I know than older folks that already oughta know. Second: This legal thing has me on edge too. I'm 58 and "tinkered" off and on for decades with pyro. I've decide to take the leap to legit and even though I've been doing quite a lot of reading and research, I still feel I might be getting into more than I bargained for. Third: I live in Wisconsin and I could use some reassurance and direction. Seems like there are some very knowledgeable members here that might provide the advice I am seeking. Fourth: WPAG (or like minded groups) sounds like a good indicator of "intention". Much of the law is based on "intention" and anything you can do to to solidify your intention speaks to the whole situation. Fifth: Probably should have been first. Safety in this pursuit is paramount. Mistakes don't allow much (if anything) by way of second chances. This applies to whether or not you're legal, licensed, or whatever. Safety is your responsibility for you and the ones that associate with you. You usually only get one shot at that...... Here's the post dinner edit: Never been much of a "clubber" due to the politics of, well most anything. But clubs can be a good source of information and some "insulation" from priers into your personal affairs. Alternatively, it is possible, by misbehaving, to bring undue scrutiny on those very organizations that you sought to insulate you. Discretion is the better part............of most everything. Edit continued: My age does not make me an expert here, but I have had more than a few life experiences.............. Not a long timer here, but a long timer in many things that can create risk. My 2 cents, Gotta finish dinner, later.......... /m Edited June 29, 2012 by otto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode986 Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thanks for the reply. Yes, Safety and being responsible is a big deal. If i end up screwing up i could possibly wreck something for the whole pyro community. I also know that explosives and chemicals are very dangerous. I only let my most responsible friend help me with pyro stuff or let them come shoot with me. Even then i instruct them and remind them of safety constantly. When i turn 21 i want to get a explosive manufacturing license so i can work with the big stuff. Can you rephrase what you said in #2 i dont quite get what your saying? thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 If you're concerned about anything, just e-mail the president of the club. They'll be able to let you know anything you want to know. I doubt anyone would have issues with minors attending, but I can't speak to building or firing. If you're uncertain about anything, you should attend at least one club shoot before making a decision about joining. You can just observe and talk to members to make sure it's the place and people for you. The August WPAG shoot is my favorite of the year. It'd be a great one to attend if either you or Otto is considering it. Mike, I've only attended two HPA shoots. I've had a ton of fun at both of them, and met great people. I'll certainly let you know if I see any real issues. I just want to make sure I get used to the way things work before I put my foot in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Why exactly do certain chemicals react how they do when combined with others? I am mainly wondering why certain chemicals can become explosive or combustable.what books should i get to learn more?There are three fireworks books I would recommend - each has a section on chemistry that covers your question. Unfortunately they're all $$$$$$ and seldom found in the average library, but if you look online I'm sure you will find a torrent of information. Shimizu - Fireworks, the Art Science and TechniqueLancaster - Fireworks, Principles and PracticeHardt - Pyrotechnics Shimizu would be my first choice, a good mix of theory and practice. Read it cover to cover. Lancaster is a bit less technical and more chatty. Hardt is more of a reference book. Edited June 30, 2012 by Peret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 You can download Skylighter's beginner's guide if you just want the basics... not everyone likes reading a load of theories or gibberish. Pyrotechnic isn't hard, just a lit of do's and don'ts (and make sure they are followed) and some simple ideas on how to make simple things. www.skylighter.com does have a wealth of information for the beginner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thanks for the reply. Yes, Safety and being responsible is a big deal. If i end up screwing up i could possibly wreck something for the whole pyro community. I also know that explosives and chemicals are very dangerous. I only let my most responsible friend help me with pyro stuff or let them come shoot with me. Even then i instruct them and remind them of safety constantly. When i turn 21 i want to get a explosive manufacturing license so i can work with the big stuff. Can you rephrase what you said in #2 i dont quite get what your saying? thanks again. By tinkering I mean doing a bunch of stuff without realizing what I was really doing. I grew up in the good ol' days when big bangers were easily acquired. My family, and we're talking grandfathers and great uncles were the worst of the bunch. My one uncle was on the fire department and always participated in the shoots on the 4th. Vic would spend his winters emptying unpopped scavenged firecrackers for the flash inside. All he was really interested in was getting a big bunch to confine in large amounts. I kinda worshiped the guy for a while and it was always a competition of sorts when the holiday rolled around. I did finally manage to outdo the old coot, but the chemical mix was not likely the smartest thing I've ever done, but I will say that a roll or two of cheap electrical tape provides some mighty impressive confinement for low tech ingredients. I've still got a big interest in pyro. We'll burn up $6-800 in consumer type stuff every 4th. Love it...... I'm not sure this route is necessarily cheaper, but you have the ability to do things you just can't buy at the consumer level. So at my grand old age, I've made some moves to acquire a legit magazine (still in the assembly phase) and set up a workshop not connected to the house. The farther I continue on this path the more it strikes me that this is extremely serious business, even though it's a boatload of fun. I've done some pretty ill-advised things in my basement and garage, but time has come to realize I value everything in those buildings more than continuing on that path. Maybe I've finally realized I'm not 21 and bulletproof anymore........... The other thing I've come to realize over the years is that most accidents (especially the more serious ones) tend to begin as something that, for whatever reason, seems like a really good idea. Really...... Right up until that split second where you go, "Awww crap!" But then it's too late ........ Saddest part is after the fact you know exactly what went wrong and how really, really foolish you'd been. The last 20 years I've evolved into quite a planner, to the point where it seems like sometimes I'll never get anything done. I don't have much by way of accidents anymore though. In the end doing things the correct way is not necessarily the fastest or easiest, but it's usually the best. Not sure if this clarifies anything or just muddies the waters.......... /m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastmode986 Posted July 4, 2012 Author Share Posted July 4, 2012 ok thanks for the advice, it really is a fun hobby. my parents were kind of nervous about me getting into it but now they are cool my mom is the only one that worries a little now. Im not sure what to do for my fourth of july though if you light fireworks in plainfield they write you a 500$ ticket and they have squad car for specifically wrecking peoples holidayi mean to make sure we have a safe fourth of july( it was safe until you make people freak with that huge fine) they really enforcing it because they claim its to dry but i think thats some bs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 In Indiana, it was too dry, then the storms wrecked things. No BS, the bans for consumers were appropriate. The only parts I disagree with is safe and sane product in the driveway should have been okay, and professional shows should not have been cancelled either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 We had great weather here. It was cool and overcast most of the day with light rain in the early afternoon to damp everything down, then around 4pm the sun came out for a beautiful clear evening. Nothing was cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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