taiwanluthiers Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I notice some of you talk about big shells, 6", 12", etc. but I just don't see how I can make and fire shells like this without attracting attention, as I am pretty sure it's illegal without a pyrotechnics license. For the sake of not attracting attention, as well as safety I have elected to not make any devices that falls outside of consumer firework (that means no shell above 4", preferably 2.5 or 3"), but is it possible to get good effects like letters or shapes out of smaller shells, or am I stuck with peonies? I do realize that certain effects or stars aren't really seen in consumer fireworks, for example purple stars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I've seen lots of purple in consumer fireworks! patterns are possible with shells sized 2 inch (just ask vh718) but very difficult. if you have the right skill, it can be done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh718 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 haha thanks cali, yeah you can make very respectable shells that are 3" and smaller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUfwqeNoTjA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgdhNosZ85M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroAce Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 WOW they are really good breaks vh718!What kind of burst are you using and do you use a booster?Any tips to help us out, what pasting method do you use and how many layers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogbarry Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I can't fire anything where I live as I don't have the space, fireworks are illegal in my town unless it's a permitted show and the chief of police lives 3 doors down from me. However, I have managed to obtain a shooters license in my state and an ATF license. Is there a fireworks club in your area? I joined a club in my area. This is a great way to enjoy this hobby as by pooling the resources of it's members, a club can afford to spend money on insurance and such that is needed to set up permitted displays. If I want to build a 16" shell and shoot it, I can. I can't test my shells as often as I'd like as I am limited to the club's schedule of events but it's nice to fire shells with the support of the police and fire departments. It also helps if you find a display company that is looking for help (it probably won't pay much, if at all) as you will gain experience and possibly meet other pyros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vh718 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 WOW they are really good breaks vh718!What kind of burst are you using and do you use a booster?Any tips to help us out, what pasting method do you use and how many layers? 4:1 rice hulls with 2.2g whistle mix booster. 5 layers 3 strip method (total of 10) but i alternate poles. check out my youtube channel i have some tutorials and many more vids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 There are pyrotechnic unions I think for professional pyros, but not really any amateur pyrotechnic scene. I am not really looking to be a professional pyro, but just want to keep it a hobby. Building guitar is hard enough as it is. Clubs would be nice though, but in Taiwan there are ample opportunity to see displays both professional and non professional (with consumer firework of course) because there are no date restriction for fireworks (if there is one, it's not being enforced). I just don't see how I can get up to building 4"+ shell because there's a 50kg limit for all chlorates and perchlorates that you are allowed to have without a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 You don't need 50kg chlorate or perchlorate, unless you are going to build a 48". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaMtnBkr Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 50 kg is 110 lbs which is a lot of oxidizer. And it sounds like that is the max amount at any one time. I bet most people here only have a couple pounds of stars at any one time and have probably not come close to ever using 50 kg of perchlorate. I wouldn't worry about that if this is just a hobby. I also wouldn't worry about bigger shells, at least not yet. I would say 3" and 4" are probably the most common size for the hobbyist to make. It's all I make and a hard hitting 4" is a big shell. I have quite a bit of property and they are a bit big for me to shoot here because quite a bit of the shell gets blocked by trees. I'm actually going in the other direction and going to start making smaller shells. I can make more of them and use less chems at the same time. There are a ton of effects that can be made without ever thinking of a pattern shell. Once you get a couple shells under your belt it will be a little easier to determine what direction to go. Until then just shoot for something small and simple. I think you will be surprised how much there is to learn just to make them work good. Again, just my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 The laws specifically dealing with fireworks says 50kg limit for perchlorate and chlorates, didn't say anything about nitrates or whatever but I do know that Taiwan (along with many countries including the US) does have a maximum of around 50 pounds (about 25kg in Taiwan) of firework a household is allowed to have legally, so not sure if that would cause any issue. The laws are there to discourage illegal firework factories. I think I will make a few fountains and roman candles at first. In Taiwan you can buy (but are discouraged from buying) 3 and even 4" shells, and I lit a 3" shell one time and it's got some power just from the lift. During New Years in 2011 I was at a park lighting fireworks with a bunch of other people, and these guys love lighting 3" shells in close proximity. I had limited money at the time so I got this roman candle thing, except it was much bigger than a roman candle that shot little 1" shells instead of stars. Lots of fun to hold it in my hands while lighting them but I point the other end away from me in case it back blows. The easy availability of fireworks and very few well enforced laws regarding fireworks was one reason that it took me so long to get back into pyrotechnics, after all why make them when you can buy them? I read one Taiwan expat bought a shell "the size of bowling ball" and lit it in a park not knowing that it was supposed to go into a tube with a lift charge (in Taiwan if you somehow get your hands on class B firework, they sell you the shell only, you have to get your own mortar/lift/e-match because it's assumed that you know what you are doing). So the thing exploded on the ground and of course shattered a few windows. The guy hid and the cops didn't have any clue who lit it. I would hope that anyone selling class B fireworks would have enough sense to check if the person knows what to do with them. Thanks for your responses, I figure I would make a 3" shell at the most (as that is the largest a consumer can easily buy) and see what I can (eventually) do with it. For now it will be fountains, roman candles, then rockets, then shells... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Well, that must have been an 8". They are pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cogbarry Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 There are pyrotechnic unions I think for professional pyros, but not really any amateur pyrotechnic scene. I am not really looking to be a professional pyro, but just want to keep it a hobby. Building guitar is hard enough as it is. Clubs would be nice though, but in Taiwan there are ample opportunity to see displays both professional and non professional (with consumer firework of course) because there are no date restriction for fireworks (if there is one, it's not being enforced). I just don't see how I can get up to building 4"+ shell because there's a 50kg limit for all chlorates and perchlorates that you are allowed to have without a permit. Oh, sorry. I should have known you were from Taiwan from your handle. I think you're on the right track - don't listen to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I believe what makes a 1.4G consumer shell is the weight, not the size. I think they're limited to 50 grams of active composition, but whether that 50g is in a 1.75, 3 or 4 inch shell is immaterial, since it's the burst that matters. For what it's worth, you'd be hard pressed to get more than about 30g of stars and burst in a 1.75 inch ball shell. The filling for my 3 inch ball shells generally weighs from 100 to 150 grams, and a 4 inch, 250 to 350 grams. So you can expect a home-made 3 inch shell to be four times as impressive as a 3 inch consumer shell. If you reckon that about 50% to 60% of the payload weight is oxidizer, you can see that 50kg of perc makes a LOT of 3 inch shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 1.4g reloadable shells are limited to 1.75". Preloaded singleshot shells and cake inserts can be up to 2.25". Anything that appears larger is either overloaded, a smaller shell inside a bigger hemi, or a mortar with a sleeve inside to fit a smaller shell. The weight is also limited. I believe it is 40g for effect and 20g for lift, but I may be wrong. It seems like most good consumer ball shells weigh around 30g with the lift removed. Canister shells can fit more, but they are about 50% clay. The actual part of a canister shell that has effect is a cylinder about 1.5" tall by the same diameter. The few I have dissassembled appear to be burst and stars bulk filled and pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 60 gram limit on shells, 50 for the effect and 10 for lift. If a mine to break effect is desired, up to 10 grams of shell weight can be used in the lift. E.g. 10 grams lift, 10 grams stars in lift, 40 grams aerial effect. I recently took apart a premium can shell, 49.8 grams of effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 That's not a lot of comp... I am going to hazard a guess that in Taiwan the rules probably don't apply. Well there is a law that says only certified fireworks are allowed and the fire marshal won't certify anything over 2.5" (certified fireworks have a counterfeit proof label on it) but last I checked, most of what I've seen people light (big cake, the whole box is about 45 x 30 x 30cm, an average 10kg shipping box basically) does not appear to be certified, as they have no label or packaging, everything is just plain craft paper. When it goes off it looks like professional displays, except it's not. So I guess the 3" shells in Taiwan are probably close to what a professional 3" shell would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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