Benzolift vs. H3 as a liftcharge

[dangerousamateur]

Hi,

 

I use H3 as a lift for my small shells regularly, because my BP is to slow.

 

My question is, how does Benzolift compare to H3 in terms of speed (with the same charcoal)?

[Bcorso85]

i made benzolift a few times before i fugured out how to make good b.p. If you make it right its a really hot composition thats alot closer to flash than anything else. i think the benzofilft made with really hot b.p. will make one hell of a burst charge. with mostly whistle mix as the composition the charcoal wouldnt make a huge deal.

[Bcorso85]

i would granulate it, and not put it on rice hulls. its too volatile to take dry powder and put it onto rice hulls.

[dangerousamateur]

No, I was not talking about burst, I meant LIFT.

 

And to be more precise, making lift without a ballmill.

But the mortar has to survive of course...

[Bcorso85]

You can make it without the ball mill , but the better product is made with hot b.p. instead of a green mix.

[Bcorso85]

If you want to make b.p. without a ball mill, try looking into the C.I.A. method.

[Potassiumchlorate]

H3 should be more powerful. Potassium chlorate based stuff is always more powerful than potassium perchlorate based, maybe except for when using potassium dichromate as a catalyst. You could probably use half the amount of H3 as a liftcharge in small mortars. I actually tried 0.5 grams of H3 on rice hulls as lift in my stargun. The sheer sound was a proof of how much stronger than BP it was.

[Mumbles]

PotassiumChlorate, that is probably only true when comparing the same fuel. H3 and whistle mix made with perchlorate are in completely different classes. Whistle is far and away more powerful and quicker burning than H3.

 

I can't really give much advice with regard to general lifting power between benzolift and H3 however. I'd probably start at 1/10th to 1/16th the weight of the shell.

[GalFisk]

I can't vouch for H3 as I've never used it, but I've used benzolift for 1" and 2" shells, and 1/16 of shell weight is a bit on the powerful side. I'd try 1/20.

I made my benzolift using the wetmix methodg here: http://www.creagan.net/fireworks/benzolift.html

It was made with potassium benzoate, I used just enough hot water to dissolve my KNO3 completely, and screened sulfur and charcoal together to get rid of the sulfur's tendency to clump immediately.

[Bangkokpyro]

I can never understand why people want to play about with Benzolift, H3, whistle on hulls etc for lift charges?

Using those kinds of powderful, more sensitive formulas as a bursting charge, yes I can understand that, but for lifting shells why bother taking the risk of blowing up your gun, flowerpots or just sending your shell into orbit?

 

B.P works just fine for lifting any size of shell to the right height, the amount just needs to be determined for your own particular lift powder.

Even if you lack a ballmill or reactive Charcoal rough sieved ingredients with commercial Charcoal granulated with hot water will still lift any shell to the right height; you just need more of it.

IMO If you can't make a reasonable quality B.P and think more energetic formulas are the answer perhaps you should stick to ground effects.

[Bcorso85]

You know dangerous amateur you can find a ball mill very cheap. The prices on pyro websites are double what they really sell for. Go to harbour freight. I have a local store but they also have a website. I purchased a 6# ball mill for the same price pyro suppliers sell a 3#. You can make great b.p. in four hours that is really hot. I lift a 3 inch 150gram shell with about 10 grams of my b.p. riced nice and big.

[dagabu]

I can never understand why people want to play about with Benzolift, H3, whistle on hulls etc for lift charges?

 

Good question, I would have to spend x4 more for the same lift if using Benzo Lift.

 

-dag

[xBangergoosEx]

I can personally attest that Benzolift is one of the most powerful compositions that you can use as a lift charge.In fact, i would say that it is too powerful. I wouldnt use it in any shell bigger that 4". In my opinion, Benzolift has lifting potential that surpasses black powder formulas and H3, hands down.

[dangerousamateur]

I would have to spend x4 more for the same lift if using Benzo Lift.

I'm doing this hobby on a very small scale so that is not a problem.

[zAZO9a]

ive used h3 for lift in small shells as well as kp. but never tried benzolift it just doesent make since not to use bp...and h3 is twice as loud neighbors dont yell AS much about bp

[TritonPyro]

I always make benzolift as a break charge never as a lift. With shells over 2 inch, they destroy the shell in the mortar. Carefully crafted Benzo is very powerful and a small bag over the time fuse has an incredible bang, and always ignites the stars.I tend to disagree with using BP when it is being made. I have always used KNO3/ Sulphur and charcoal with boiling water before adding perch and Sodium Saliciate. Screening and remixing 3 times and leaving it to surface crystallise before the granulation leaves me with a predictable and powerful composition. It seems the effort put in and time involved makes it a great shell break. I have used it as a lift before I had a good ball mill and never went over 5 % of the shell weight. My 5 cents!

[zAZO9a]

i have thought of using as burst before..but havent gotten round to it yet..even if i never use formulas n comps i like to try them a couple of tymes just so i know... who knows might not have choices of what to use someday. and experimenting is fun..

[Mike]

If you wan`t to use benzolift, don`t use it on shells bigger then 3". On a 4" shell you should be aware of the fact that this fast stuff can probably blow up the mortar.

 

When using Benzolift i can recommend using on shells up to 2,5" inch benzolift with grennmix to maybe 1 h milled bp.

on a 3" shell use 5% Blackpowder prepared by CIA method and 5% of the benzolift. Both granulated. This gives you realyable lift and lightning. Pure Benzolift is possible but quite strong.

 

On shells <1,5" you should be able to use benzolift with hot bp.

[Arthur]

I've seen one professional GRP mortar destroyed by benzolift, we had a fair safety distance but I wouldn't want a piece like that cutting through you or me.

 

My first rule of DIY pyro is get good reliable BP. For lifting a 6" shell I only need 75g which is easily possible in a mortar with a pestle. Learn how to granulate it either by breaking a dry puck or grating a damp ball. Do please ensure that the charcoal you use is rated here as good to excellent. Willow pawlonia and pine will work well, usually charcoals sold for BBQ use are usually too hard and make useless powders (unless you want slow fountains)!

[TritonPyro]

Arthur, did you mean vine or pine. Here it is usually used for TT and other dense spark effects.

[Arthur]

Pine is great for spark tail effects, and will also make OK BP. Pine is easy to find as off cuts at a timber yard.

Vine will make great BP I'm told but I've never tried it.

 

The traditional British best wood for charcoal is willow -the debarked fresh growth from the thickness of a man's arm to the diameter of a thumb. I've seen BP from big log willow and thin stick willow and (though it was a single test) the thin stick willow was notably better. In some countries willow is hard to source.

 

Some people define "good BP" timber as "grows by water" This may be a guide but not a perfect answer.

[TritonPyro]

I use vine and end up with a pretty potent BP. I have never made it with pine as it is always used here for TT type stuff. A friend made some from hardwood charcoal and it was not bad at all. I guess there is a lot of soft woods that will fit the bill.

 

Is willow best seasoned before carbonising?

Edited March 26, 2013 by TritonPyro

[Mumbles]

From some of the data I've seen the only difference seasoning has on the wood is the rate at which it chars. Allowing the wood to first dry will remove the need to boil off all the water before the real cooking can begin.

[Bobosan]

Gone off the original topic a bit but going to add to Mumbles point.

 

The can on left has past the "steam" stage and about halfway into volatile burnoff. Can on right still in "steam boil off" and will not light at this point.

 

http://youtu.be/JDHb4D9EvJg

[dan999ification]

Low yields with wet wood, I get as little as 10% with wet willow, more around 20% with dry wood.

The boiling seems to shrink the charcoal as well making it denser and hard to work with.

As said thinner than you wrist is what you want I find the smaller the better.

 

Dan.