Question about Whistle Mix ratios

[The504]

In this whistle mix ratio it says 70 Potassium Perchlorate / 30 Sodium Benzoate / + 4 Petroleum Jelly / +1 Red Iron Oxide. What does the two underlined ratios mean? How do you measure that in the composition?

 

Here's just a pic of the chart:

 

 

http://i45.tinypic.com/8xq3kk.png

Edited May 25, 2012 by the504

[Potassiumchlorate]

They are optional and/or >100%.

[The504]

They are optional and/or >100%.

 

Ok so they're not really needed?

[Mumbles]

They're needed.

 

What they mean are additional parts. It's a way to write things if you still want the main composition to add to 100%. What it would mean is that the composition is actually 70g Potassium Perchlorate, 30g Sodium Benzoate, 1g Iron oxide, and 4g vaseline. It adds to 105g or parts, which some people don't like. You really can't just add vaseline straight to the mixture, it will never incorporate. It's usually dissolved in something, mixed in, and the solvent is allowed to evaporate. That mixture is specifically for rockets. If you were looking to use it for a burst or something, I'd leave the the vaseline out.

[The504]

They're needed.

 

What they mean are additional parts. It's a way to write things if you still want the main composition to add to 100%. What it would mean is that the composition is actually 70g Potassium Perchlorate, 30g Sodium Benzoate, 1g Iron oxide, and 4g vaseline. It adds to 105g or parts, which some people don't like. You really can't just add vaseline straight to the mixture, it will never incorporate. It's usually dissolved in something, mixed in, and the solvent is allowed to evaporate. That mixture is specifically for rockets. If you were looking to use it for a burst or something, I'd leave the the vaseline out.

 

Thanks for helping me understand that.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Hm, I meant exactly that; if it's for burst, you don't need vaseline. And red iron oxide isn't a must. They don't have it in commercial stuff.

[The504]

I'm looking to make whistle rocket mix.

[dagabu]

I highly suggest that you use the baggy method for making whistle rocket fuel. There are videos out there about how to do it, like this one on Skylighter but I have a simple modified version that works well for me. This is a fun video of my sons whistle rocket last year at PGI and this is the whistle fuel I make.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF8RE_M8v6s

 

 

I use the 70:30:1:3 comp using perc, benzoate, catalyst and oil. First, ball mill the perc and catalyst (red iron or copper oxychloride) together, tapping the jar every few minutes to dislodge the comp from the mill walls then blade mill the benzoate and pass it through a fine screen.

 

I like to add mineral oil to Coleman's Camping Gas and then add the fluid to the perc in a gallon ziplock bag then add the benzoate into the bag, close it up and knead the baggy till you cant see white particles. If the mix is too stiff, add some camping gas and knead some more.

 

Once all mixed up, I let it sit for a few hours in the bag and then knead it once more.

 

Go to the hardware store, get some good stiff metal window screen, a #10 metal can and some duct tape, put a blob of the mix on the screen and press it through the screen onto kraft paper keeping the layer 1/4" or less.

 

Why do it this way? The mixing of the perc and catalyst together makes for a homogeneous mixture, the blade milling of the benzo makes it fine enough to soften with the camping gas, the camping gas evaporates slower then pain thinner or acetone, that means that the evaporation is less likely to pull water in from the atmosphere when it drys. The mineral oil does not have to be melted, it is cheaper per ounce and it goes further then the greasy stuff. Adding the oil and ricing it also keeps the dust down whether it is used as burst or rocket fuel.

 

Good luck and make sure you treat this stuff with great respect, this stuff will explode in a pile, just watch this video.

 

-dag

[Bcorso85]

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US

 

This is my video on YouTube. Just made my first whistle mix. Im telling you this is a great formula. Loud and a nice pitch. Raspy when wet. Very clear when dry and pressed well.

I used potassium perchlorate 70%

Sodium salicylate. 30%

Red iron oxide. +1%

Mineral oil. +10%

Naptha. Until a dough like. Ball.

 

 

If you have any problem with the link search whistle mix #1. Screen name BC85100

[Bcorso85]

Dag,

Isn't camping fuel just kerosene? Or is there something else added? The reason I'm asking is because I was going to use it but couldn't find it anywhere local. The gent at sports authority suggested it was plain old kerosene. I went with the naphtha because home depot was across the street.

- Ben

[TheSidewinder]

Camping fuel, commonly Coleman brand, is a blend of several petroleum distillates.

 

But as far as I know it's primary ingredient is "Naphtha".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel

[Mumbles]

I would consider kerosene to be a bit heavier and slower evaporating than camping fuel. It consists of a higher boiling fraction. It makes great fireballs though. In a quick search, it seems that camping fuel would be better suited to this application as it is totally volatile. From reading a little on wikipedia, it seems that kerosene has at least some content that is solid at room temperature. They're things like naphthalene and substituted benzenes. They'll evaporate eventually, but no one wants to wait days to weeks.

[Bcorso85]

Thanks guys. Besides the distortion of sound how did the formula I post compare? Audio wise...

[dagabu]

Thanks guys. Besides the distortion of sound how did the formula I post compare? Audio wise...

 

It should sound just like my video, the pitch is not affected by the phlegmatizer.

 

-dag

[parthoasia]

is that possible to make whistle with any type if nitrate powder!

 

[lloyd]

Not nitrate only (of which I'm aware, anyway), but there are some 'perchlorate-free' formulae that use both a nitrate and potassium chlorate.

 

Lloyd

[Mumbles]

There is one nitrate based whistle I am aware of, but the other component is quite toxic and has sensitivity, compatibility, and handling issues.

[dave321]

There is one nitrate based whistle I am aware of, but the other component is quite toxic and has sensitivity, compatibility, and handling issues.

 

potassium nitrate + potassium picrate

 

.....a really dated composition, not really used now

Edited May 18, 2017 by dave321

[Adrenaline]

According to a very old book on pyrotechnics, pure potassium picrate pressed into a small paper tube also

makes for a decent whistle insert. This would be both nitrate and perchlorate free. Handling potassium picrate however

is not something I'd want to do.

[Mumbles]

The potassium nitrate essentially tempers the potassium picrate while maintaining the effect. It doesn't actively contribute to the effect really as far as I've read. A somewhat similar application is done by adding potassium chlorate and/or barium nitrate to barium chlorate stars. It drives down the cost and sensitivity while maintaining a similar effect, though can have some advantageous burn rate benefits.

 

Potassium picrate on it's own makes a black smoke with the whistle. I'm not sure if the nitrate versions also produce this same effect.

[lloyd]

Mumb,

The KClO3/KNO3 whistles produce essentially the same color smoke as perchlorate whistles, but they burn with a different (not unpleasing, but not as 'loud') audible note.

 

I have recently done both for a military project. I'd personally choose the perchlorate version, but the other is -eh- 'acceptable'.

 

Lloyd

[DavidF]

Trust me when I say that you will never make potassium picrate whistles twice. I made them according to the directions in Weingart, starting with picric acid. Yuck! The pervasive bitterness in the air from the slightest handling was intolerable to me. The picrate I made was a very brilliant yellow.

[MrB]

And they say primary explosives have nothing to do in pyrotechnics. Cool.

 

As far as a primary explosive goes, it's not "very sensitive". 2kilo drop tests at 21cm sets it of, 10% of the time. (According to Wikipedia) Not something i would ram, (No, really not something i'd ram) but also not that bad that it should set of if you drop the completed pyro.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to try it, but it is... interesting.

 

David, what did it sound like, if you had to describe it?

[lloyd]

Trust me when I say that you will never make potassium picrate whistles twice.

----------------

I don't like it for whistles, but I LOVE picrates for topical burn treatment.

 

I did 'extra credit' work in chem lab when in college. I was one of three after-hours 'glass blowers', making the various small accessories other students had broken.

 

Our 'standard' for pain relief and fast healing of burns was a commercial ointment consisting of just petrolatum and picric acid. It, too, would stain anything it contacted, but boy did it fix up burns in a hurry!

 

Lloyd

[dave321]

Mumb,

The KClO3/KNO3 whistles produce essentially the same color smoke as perchlorate whistles, but they burn with a different (not unpleasing, but not as 'loud') audible note.

 

I have recently done both for a military project. I'd personally choose the perchlorate version, but the other is -eh- 'acceptable'.

 

Lloyd

Lloyd,

 

just curious, why would the military move away from the std composition (you previously posted, using salicylate) ?

 

why combine chlorate with nitrate? were they trying to "reduce" sensitivity of the chlorate part

 

dave