kleberrios Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I got a source of white phosphorus. I'm wanting to do an old formulation of a pyrotechnic effect called here in Brazil "raputrec" which was nothing more than a small cylinder like a worm that when someone stepped on it he gave several Snaps and raced across the floor. This effect was very fun and safe but no one has built more. Enables someone to give any guesses about this or any other pyrotechnic formula (safe) to use white phosphorus? Altogether there are 200 kg of pure white phosphorus being negotiated, but I will not buy it if you can not do anything about it. The person who bought this huge amount could not do the "raputreco" and kept the white phosphorus in cylinders filled with water and everything in a box of 1000 water llitros for over 20 years and is now willing to dispose of the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layedbackkustomz Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 ah here in the usa in the 60's they were called crazy dragons or crazy demons. i seen on once from a old nieghbor i had he said they use to put them in the aisles of the movie theater. i too would like to know more about these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Is this by chance the device you are talking about?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3QoyOCS5lI&feature=plcp I don't know the first thing about how you might make them safely using WP. Isn't it pyrophoric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 It's nonetheless a cool thing. I remember in the 1970's, when I was a kid. I could purchase Pharao's snakes in the toy store. Now it's a crime to posess the chemicals that those snakes were made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 ah here in the usa in the 60's they were called crazy dragons or crazy demons. i seen on once from a old nieghbor i had he said they use to put them in the aisles of the movie theater. i too would like to know more about these Fatastico's it! now just need to know what makes the snake kkkk I am suspected that all the components are mixed into the water and then the dough is no longer pyrophoric and can be handled safely. The dough is extruded giving the format "snakes." Let's see if we can find that formula guys, 200 kg of WF waiting for me ... just want to make these cobrinhas. I'm about to buy one kilogram for testing and will inform you the progress of the tests. Thanks.Desfazer edições Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 Is this by chance the device you are talking about?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3QoyOCS5lI&feature=plcp I don't know the first thing about how you might make them safely using WP. Isn't it pyrophoric? Fatastico's it! now just need to know what makes the snake kkkkI am suspected that all the components are mixed into the water and then the dough is no longer pyrophoric and can be handled safely. The dough is extruded giving the format "snakes." Let's see if we can find that formula guys, 200 kg of WF waiting for me ... just want to make these cobrinhas.I'm about to buy one kilogram for testing and will inform you the progress of the tests. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingy Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Have you thought about the storage complications of white phosphorus, with it's serious pyrophoric issues? Storing it in water is one issue, but if you live in a geographical area of freezing and thawing temperatures, you need to make further adjustments, for it's storage. I once considered purchasing it. My plan would of been storing the container, in a sealed tube, such as PVC, below the frostline, about 3 to 4 feet, below ground level, away from buildings and anything flammable. Once I observed it tested, it seemed rather lame, (IMO), and forgone the idea of the purchase. The advantages of white phosphorus did not even come close to the disadvantages. White and red phosphorus has also become one of the ingredients, some people have used to manufacture methamphetamine, highly restricting it's possession. It is also highly toxic. Edited May 19, 2012 by Zingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleberrios Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Have you thought about the storage complications of white phosphorus, with it's serious pyrophoric issues? Storing it in water is one issue, but if you live in a geographical area of freezing and thawing temperatures, you need to make further adjustments, for it's storage. I once considered purchasing it. My plan would of been storing the container, in a sealed tube, such as PVC, below the frostline, about 3 to 4 feet, below ground level, away from buildings and anything flammable. Once I observed it tested, it seemed rather lame, (IMO), and forgone the idea of the purchase. The advantages of white phosphorus did not even come close to the disadvantages. White and red phosphorus has also become one of the ingredients, some people have used to manufacture methamphetamine, highly restricting it's possession. It is also highly toxic. Actually the storage of the product is complicated but tons and tons are marketed worldwide for the manufacture of phosphoric acid. http://diyetech.en.m...Phosphorus.html Edited May 21, 2012 by kleberrios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 As taught in Weingart, cut it into strips and put them in rocket headers immediately before launch. Apparently it makes the most amazing liquid fire effect. On the other hand, I believe such rockets would now be banned under the Geneva Convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zingy Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Look up 'Phossy Jaw' or Phosphorus Toxicity. White Phosphorus decays the teeth and jaw bone, allowing for infection. Phossy Jaw was a very disfiguring, agonizing and painful way people died, from white phosphorus poisoning,or exposure, working in match factories in the late 1800's and early 1900's. Phossy Jaw was an infection of teeth and the jaw bone, or where the teeth and jaw became impacted with puss. People, mostly women and children died, when the infection spread to the brain, before the advent of antibiotics.The pain would of overcome hunger, to even slurp down canned peaches, or applesauce. I believe this is what happens, to a lesser extent, to methamphetamine abusers, referred to as 'meth mouth'. Please be careful, with elemental phosphorus. Edited May 21, 2012 by Zingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asilentbob Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I agree that you should try to avoid the use of phosphorus. Too many headaches. I imagine you could probably get a similar effect from some modified lead-free dragon egg like composition. Or some chlorate-sulfur composition. Either way its going to be dangerous... but better dangerous than dangerous, toxic, and highly sought after by druggies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) phosphorus isn't so bad as long as you NEVER get complacent with regards to how you treat it. phossy jaw was a terrible effect but further reading on the subject will show that you must be horribly lax with it for this complication. i was also very interested in any possible pyro uses for it as i (with help from the sciencemadness community)developed a method to produce small quantities of P4 on a small scale. the necessary materials and chemicals for the synthesis are relatively cheap and available to almost everyone. *disclaimer* while this is a relatively simple reduction of a low melting phosphate, i do not recommend you try this synthesis unless you are prepared to control major fires, escape runaway synthesis and deal with injury, pain and destruction of property. also, in the videos i present here, we were experimenting with sodium chloride as a viscosity improving agent to help phosphorus in the gas phase escape the thick, molten reaction bath.the salt is unnecessary and it seems the yield may suffer only slightly without it but you get a cleaner product sans salt. if anyone is really interested in the process i can share details of the constrution. yes it's long. whatever. here ya go: http://youtu.be/mibM4WUx74Qpart1http://youtu.be/4YjUC2dmNV0part2http://youtu.be/23bXKpLyXJkpart3 i have been storing my supply of P4 for about 4 years now without incident. i keep most of my flammable and sensitive chems in a dedicated refrigerator. the P4 is stored in water. Edited August 14, 2014 by rogeryermaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiwanluthiers Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I think the concern is that in some places the water could freeze, which could spell trouble if it thaws and leaks later... plus white P is toxic, dangerous, not to mentioned watched by agencies like DEA since they were used by drug makers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I think the concern is that in some places the water could freeze, which could spell trouble if it thaws and leaks later... plus white P is toxic, dangerous, not to mentioned watched by agencies like DEA since they were used by drug makers... Very little of that is actually true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogeryermaw Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 phosphorus, while heavily regulated, is not that closely watched. while local laws may vary wildly, on the federal level, suppliers must document who buys and in what quantities. end users must keep detailed records of their quantity and usage. that does not mean that you have to automatically submit any such records. only that they must be presentable on request. personally, i have never heard of any legit end user actually having to submit those records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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