BillyBobBodean Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I am new to this hobby and have been reading this board for a couple of weeks, as well as reading up on other web sites and such. I purchsed a ball mill (Chicago Electric) and lead balls, have my KNO3, charcoal (airfloat), sulfer and dextrine. Safety is my number one concern, so having never done this would you say that ball milling the KNO3\charcoal\sulfer together in the mill is OK the first time? I do have a safe place outside where this can be done. I only ask because I have seen some websites suggest milling the sulfer and charcoal together seperate from the KNO3 and then screening it together, still others say mill all three seperate then screen them. Sorry for the long first post, I don't like to rush into something without looking at all possibilities. thanks!
JFeve81 Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I am new to this hobby and have been reading this board for a couple of weeks, as well as reading up on other web sites and such. I purchsed a ball mill (Chicago Electric) and lead balls, have my KNO3, charcoal (airfloat), sulfer and dextrine. Safety is my number one concern, so having never done this would you say that ball milling the KNO3\charcoal\sulfer together in the mill is OK the first time? I do have a safe place outside where this can be done. I only ask because I have seen some websites suggest milling the sulfer and charcoal together seperate from the KNO3 and then screening it together, still others say mill all three seperate then screen them. Sorry for the long first post, I don't like to rush into something without looking at all possibilities. thanks! Welcome. My setup is similiar to yours. I have a Chicago Electric 6-lb tumbler filled with 200 lead balls. As far as making BP I just weight out the chems, put them in my milling container, and let it run. Personally I haven't had a problem for it but it is always a possibility. You said you have a safe place outside. As long as you can adaquately barricade your mill in case something were to happen (say an explosion) while it's milling then you should be good.
Mumbles Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 The examples of BP I've seen made by milling all ingredients, or at least the fuels, separately and then screening yields something I can only describe as passable. It's not always bad, but it seems to be falling short of where it could be. Others may disagree, but in my opinion you can't get to the full potential of the mix without milling everything together. Milling the fuels and oxidizers separately, and then together for a shorter period of time is a way to avoid 3-component milling for as long if it makes you uncomfortable. As a heads up, if you have commercial airfloat charcoal, it is not going to make the best black powder. You may come to realize that not all charcoal is created equally. You may see "hot" charcoals referenced, like willow, alder, paulownia, etc to name a few. These will tend to produce faster blackpowders more suitable for lifting and breaking shells, end burning rockets, and nozzleless rockets. Other varieties like certain pines and locusts are better for sparks, but don't seem to have the same focus as the faster varieties.
BillyBobBodean Posted May 2, 2012 Author Posted May 2, 2012 Thanks for the replies! I did take your advice, Mumbles, and ordered some willow charcoal. I will mill all 3 together and follow all safety precautions. I am very glad to have found this forum.
Bcorso85 Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 Good luck! I've found that adding hot water or cold alcohol to rice the b.p. makes your left much hotter. There's a charcoal solubility chart on pyro guide. Its a great list.
bob Posted May 9, 2012 Posted May 9, 2012 and on pyro guide there is a topic under pyro comps topic name is charcoal as a veritable in black powder in it there are test going on so you can see the numbers on how good charcoal is (there aren't that meany whet but there should be more coming soon)btw my name on pyro guide is Adambob
pyroviper Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Where exactly can one purchase willow charcoal? I have been looking for two years now with no luck.
Peret Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Where exactly can one purchase willow charcoal? I have been looking for two years now with no luck. Custom Charcoal
50AE Posted May 15, 2012 Posted May 15, 2012 Mumbles, from my experience the screening only method doesn't give the best performance of BP, because the K nitrate tends to lump and the screening is not enough to break these lumps. Maybe it could if it was a very fine screen, but this would be a PITA and expensive. Putting the 3 chemicals into a ball mill and mixing them with a little media does brake the lumps of KNO3 and it mixes the ingredients better. From my experience, 20 minutes of mixing is enough. This is how I make my BP - I mill all the ingredients separately, then I screen and mix them all in a big bag and then I BM mix it for a short time.
dagabu Posted May 16, 2012 Posted May 16, 2012 My day to day break is 7:1 milled BP on rice hulls. I can make seven pounds of BP in three hours in my mill and it takes about a half hour to coat the rice hulls. I use commercial charcoal for consistency sake and it works well for all my uses. If I need to break a shell hard, I add a teaspoon of flash to the center of the shell. For lift, I use commercial 2FA. -dag
Bcorso85 Posted May 22, 2012 Posted May 22, 2012 Where exactly can one purchase willow charcoal? I have been looking for two years now with no luck.Www.hobbychemicalsupply.com and there's a guy from the UK on eBay that has a great product
BillyBobBodean Posted May 30, 2012 Author Posted May 30, 2012 Thanks to everyone for their advice and comments. Have made several batches of BP, all going well and am testing lift and break.
taiwanluthiers Posted June 8, 2012 Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Back when I couldn't order stuff online, I used to make my own charcoal by taking a metal gift tin and punching a hole at the top, then fill it with whatever I wanted to charcoal and place it in a wood fire until steam, then flames would stop coming out. After letting the stuff cool it was charcoal inside. I have found that T-Shirts (100% cotton) actually makes quite a good black powder! Just charcoal the T shirt and the result was quite good. I don't know if its quite as good as willow but it was pretty good. Now I just wished I had been making some electric guitar bodies out of Alder because I could take the shop scrap and charcoal that. Edited June 8, 2012 by taiwanluthiers
Tanner808 Posted June 10, 2012 Posted June 10, 2012 I have a 6lb tumbler and 200 half inch lead balls. Is one more efficient than the other. 1- using one drum with 100 grams with 200 lead balls 2- using 2 drums 100 grams in each with 100 lead balls in Each Do u lose efficiency by doing 200 in one drum Wouldn't it take half the time would the time to mill be the same for 200 grams if one was milled with style 1 and one was milled with style 2
Intheworks Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 Thanks to everyone for their advice and comments. Have made several batches of BP, all going well and am testing lift and break. Good to see your BP turning out well. My first post ...so hopefully I will be able to now start a thread also BP related and not hyjack yours.
taiwanluthiers Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 I have a question... Is it ok to slightly wet the black powder in the ball mill while milling to reduce dust and the possibility of accidental ignition?
dagabu Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 I have a question... Is it ok to slightly wet the black powder in the ball mill while milling to reduce dust and the possibility of accidental ignition? Interestingly enough, there is some evidence that 'slightly damp' BP burns with more vigor then 100% dry BP does. In a ball mill, the real problem lies with caking, heat and moisture will cause a premature caking causing you to mill up a big ole ball of media and meal. I suggest that you dry all materials as best you can and ball mill them in a safe location. -dag
taiwanluthiers Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 Interestingly enough, there is some evidence that 'slightly damp' BP burns with more vigor then 100% dry BP does. In a ball mill, the real problem lies with caking, heat and moisture will cause a premature caking causing you to mill up a big ole ball of media and meal. I suggest that you dry all materials as best you can and ball mill them in a safe location. -dag Problem is in Taiwan its hard to find any location that has 100 feet away from any occupied structure. It's the second densest country in the world!
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 The Vatikan must be worse. 2272 people/km2, tourists not counted.
genrege Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Hi All, Last night I too made my first batch of BP. I made about 10g, using a pestle and mortar and high quality ingredients from a reputable pyro supplier. I ground the materials for about 20 minutes and took a small sample to test. I made a thin line of BP about 2 inches long, lit it, expecting to see it fizzling along, but in fact, it all went up at once. I *think* subjectively that I made some good BP, but this obviously begs the question as to how I test the stuff to determine its quality. Do you guys have a standard method? I'm making some small grains out of what's left, will try that out when it's dried. BTW thanks for all the info on this forum, it's absolutely great!
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 On that small a scale a mortar and pestle is quite sufficient. I test my BP by seing how fast 1 gram of corned, unconfined BP burns. By editing the movie in Windows Movie Maker, you will be able to watch exactly how fast it burns. 1 gram of my BP burns in 0.16 seconds.
taiwanluthiers Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 I am in the process of getting a ball mill together... but the charcoal I have now isn't all that good, after all it is hardwood charcoal (fairly dense) and its designed for BBQ. It is cheap though. I just ordered some willow charcoal from a UK supplier on ebay... this will be a benchmark charcoal. I found that Primavera (I don't know if it is the same as Palownia) makes very good bp charcoal, but there are a LOT of that here in Taiwan so I think I'll try that.
Potassiumchlorate Posted June 16, 2012 Posted June 16, 2012 Well it isn't really true that hardwood is overall bad for BP. Beech and oak are hard but pretty OK. Have a look at the Charcoal Suitability Table.
Recommended Posts