Pirotecnia Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Waht of those "launching" devices you think is the better in general?Considering the same amount of lift powder(mortars)/BP propellant(rockets) what flyes more high? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Waht of those "launching" devices you think is the better in general?Considering the same amount of lift powder(mortars)/BP propellant(rockets) what flyes more high? Thanks ROCKETS!! WHOOT!!Really, what did you expect me to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Another vote for rockets. You get a show from the ground to the air, and rocket tails are better than rising comets. Besides, at our last club shoot there were more rockets launched on the B line than shells out of a mortar. So there is proof that rockets are better. Lift amount vs. rocket propellant is relative. A 3" shell in a mortar might use an ounce of lift to get 300ft. A 1lb rocket could use 2.5 ounces of BP to lift a shell higher, but you're still comparing apples to oranges. Rockets are much more than just shell lifting devices. Edited April 23, 2012 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Guess I will weigh in for mortars. I like to shoot them that way myself.There are more things than rising tails to add to a shell for a rising effect that I don't think can be done with a rocket. I sort of enjoy the **THUMP!** of the mortar when I launch the big guys off better than the whooosh of a rocket. I do admit though I haven't had a chance yet to mess with rockets. How big of a rocket would I need for a 12 in ball shell? Edited April 23, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 There are more things than rising tails to add to a shell for a rising effect that I don't think can be done with a rocket. Who says? I have some ideas... I've talked some of them over with a couple experienced rocket guys, I need my motors flying better first though. I sort of enjoy the **THUMP!** of the mortar when I launch the big guys off better than the whooosh of a rocket. I've seen a number of rockets make a much, much bigger thump than a shell lifting, but that's probably not what you meant. How big of a rocket would I need for a 12 in ball shell? paging cplmac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'll weigh in here and say both have their place. Shells are definitely more efficient with lift, and less trouble to make than rockets. If you want to fire a group all at once and have them burst close to each other, or you need precise timing, rockets can't do it. On the other hand, the rising effect of a rocket has no equal. I shoot mostly shells, but I always have a few rockets in the program. Interesting historical note: in one of Brock's public displays last century, I forget the occasion, he sent up 1,000 one-pound rockets all at once - inside a shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love rockets, but since I suck at balancing them and also don't have any spindles bigger than 1" in diameter and no press for making whistle rockets, I mostly build shells that I fire from mortars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousamateur Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Rockets rule. It's a real fetish.A little boys ultimate dream. spindles bigger than 1" in diameter Who needs such monsters? 3Lb rockets will lift 4 if not 5 inch shells. Thats much bigger than anything I ever touched Also you need a hell of a chem supply if you build such big boys. I'd be afraid to arouse authorities attention by ordering so much stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 cplmac lifted a 12 inch shell on a 3" ID (60 LB) rocket... used 12 pounds of fuel. you sure as hell won't use 12 lbs of BP to mortar-launch a 12" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I love rockets, but since I suck at balancing them... Don't worry about the sticks, we launched a dozen rockets this weekend and three of them had garden stakes taped to them and they flew fine. The stakes were curved and curled, ugly buggers. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I said I didn't THINK they could be done with a rocket Nate, not that I was sure. I also mention that I haven't fooled with them much. I prefer the thump of an expected mortar launch over an unexpected CATO that pelts the area with shrapnel. It's all goof though, I am trying to figure out rocketry too but I don't think it will ever replace a mortar for me. Edited April 23, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It's all goof though, I am trying to figure out rocketry too but I don't think it will ever replace a mortar for me. True that! -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 OOPS! darn keyboard... yeah, that's it, it was my keyboard... I meant it's all GOOD, OK? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 altho I like rockets I have to say once I made my mortar I have not made a rocket I use 277 grains NOT GRAMS of black powder to lift my 3 inch shells to 400 feetyou would use a way more to lift a 3 inch shell that high with a rocketI to like a thump but rockets are cool to shoot in large numbers a nother thing about mortars is that you can load a mortar in 10 seconds and I takes me 10 mintes to load a rocket (small rocket)and I would think that a mortar would be safer I meen the shell is only going one spot up! and all tho a well made rocket goes quite strat put a wind into the picture and now that rocket is not going so straitbut one thin about rockets is if you lived in a town you could make some rockets and bike (if you are only a few km away) to a field and shoot them but a large mortar you have to use a vehicol or wagon to go farther then 1km just my opinon thoI really depends of the person and there needsbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 OOPS! darn keyboard... yeah, that's it, it was my keyboard... I meant it's all GOOD, OK? LOL Maybe but I think your first statement is more correct. In all honesty, I am making a move to ball shells for a while since they are so easy and everyone loves them. Once I have a few different types down well I will lift them with rockets once in a while but I think a well rounded repertoire is better then a one trick pony. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Dag, you speak blasphemy. Someone should take your cookies away. Warthog, I don't know what (or if) kind of rising effects might work on a rocket either, but there is only one way to find out! Just stand back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Warthog, I don't know what (or if) kind of rising effects might work on a rocket either, but there is only one way to find out! Just stand back... LOL, believe me, I will! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Dag, you speak blasphemy. Someone should take your cookies away. Warthog, I don't know what (or if) kind of rising effects might work on a rocket either, but there is only one way to find out! Just stand back... I know!! Bad Dag! But I can make a 6" ball shell in an hour, including pasting it in and shoot it out of a mortar and always get a big round break that fills the sky. Best yet, I can make and fire it in a field, no power, nothing but the few materials it takes to put one together. Instant gratification. There is, however, nothing like the sound or the tail of a well built rocket motor and they will always be my first love but I don't want to become stagnant. -dag Edited April 23, 2012 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 What do you guys use for igniting the header charge? I tried a rammed delay comp with potassium nitrate and charcoal on a 3/4" stinger, but it did go CATO. Can you put in visco fuse and ram bentonite around it without destroying the visco? (I know this most probably has been answered before, but since the topic is up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Why waste a good shell by putting it on a rocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Why waste a good shell by putting it on a rocket? What's a good shell Mike? A 90lb salami? I'd rather that be shot of a mortar. A good small single break? Put it on a rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 What do you guys use for igniting the header charge? I tried a rammed delay comp with potassium nitrate and charcoal on a 3/4" stinger, but it did go CATO. Can you put in visco fuse and ram bentonite around it without destroying the visco? (I know this most probably has been answered before, but since the topic is up.) I adopted the K.I.S.S. standard, Keep It Simple, Stupid! Lately, I have forgone ALL clay and am using nozzleless rockets with NO bulkhead. The delay is the ignition for the header fuse which is just a loop of fast paper fuse (the three strand wrapped with white paper type) piped to the center of the shell and touching the top of the delay grain. No additional powder for ejection is used. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 What's a good shell Mike? A 90lb salami? I'd rather that be shot of a mortar. A good small single break? Put it on a rocket. Seriously, rockets are fun. I feel more needs to be done to control the fallout hazard though. I have seen too many lawn darts that are potentially lethal.Shells are much easier to control with a definitive fallout area.Now a big salami on top of a rocket will earn you bragging rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Mike, you are right about fallout. From watching Ned's big rockets, I think him and Dan T have the right idea with the tube busting salutes. I am not sure how that would scale down to guys like me though. Even my small rockets have become lawn darts. Recently I have wondered if the method in the anthology for color and report rockets would be a good place to start. We will see next month when I test the 4 fuels I have ready. I dont see myself building a big salami or a big rocket any time soon, so those bragging rights can go to someone else. In fact, I don't think I will go bigger than 3# rockets. There are enough things to worry about with the bigger ones and another club member has told me he thinks his rockets might fly too far for some shoot sites. Edited April 24, 2012 by nater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Seriously, rockets are fun. I feel more needs to be done to control the fallout hazard though. I have seen too many lawn darts that are potentially lethal.Shells are much easier to control with a definitive fallout area.Now a big salami on top of a rocket will earn you bragging rights. Mike, This is why part of my current design depends on an empty tube and the stick being hot glued on. When the shell pops, the stick breaks off and the tube comes down sideways. I also only use #3 and below which helps greatly in reducing the mortality rates at shoots. I think a "stick buster" should be mandatory on all rockets #3 and above with clay nozzles or bulkheads as well as long distance rockets with an expected flight time of more then 8 seconds and/or without a display type shell. My $.02 -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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