Finally found a good source of cheap-ish willow in Australia

[oldmanbeefjerky]

Hi,

 

A week ago whilst i was browsing the local $2 store, i noticed some nice light looking / coloured stick bunches in a big bucket with a price tag saying $2 a bunch.

When i went to investigate, i was surprised at how light they were! Like balsa almost!

 

at that moment i thought i must be dreaming because this stuff is balsa, though i was wrong, as it turned out, it was willow strips made from the leftovers from willow logs and the sticks/branches. all striped and polished, though with no apparent additives or aromatics added.

 

The stuff is called "Floral willow".

 

Still, each bunch weighs about 500g to a kilo, im not sure. It was awsome for me anyway, since the only place ive ever even seen willow trees has been back in victoria.

 

I asked the store manager how long theyve been selling it, turns out i havent noticed it, but theyve been there for years now, he also said its a fairly common product amongst furniture stores and other $2 or discount stores.

 

Anyway, i wanted to ask some of our australian members, to have a look around their local $2 shops or kmarts and big w's to see if they also sell floral willow,

If they do, it means an easy source of good charcoal for many pyros. it might be a bit much compared to getting it free, but still.

 

For a long time ive been searching for an alternative wood which i could find in the tropics, and all along willow has been right under my nose!

[PersonGuyDude]

Ooo nice, ill have a look around, thanks!

 

Buy them out, imo, one can never have enough good charcoal.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I'm fairly certain floral willow has nothing to do with willow trees. If 500 g and $2 aus that is going to be some expensive charcoal by the time it cooks down. And it might not even be the right thing. Are you not close to ANY fresh water? Even a wet drainage ditch? Granted you are in Australia, but black willow grows like a weed where ever there is a wet area here. Ditches, drainage ponds, lakes, and rivers. Different continent almost exactly on the other side of the world from me so I could be completely wrong.

 

That said, there has to be some local wood that makes a hot BP with a good mill. What are some local trees? What is non pressure treated lumber usually made from? Usually little scraps are free and much of our lumber scraps make surprisingly hot BP. Plus if you have a retort and mill it can be fun to experiment. I went through my yard and got a limb of a bunch of different trees or enough to fill a little 1 gallon paint can with wood. By far the hottest charcoal I found I don't even know the name of the tree. Much hotter than the black willow I've tried a few times. Maybe some experimenting is in order. Plus it should be getting colder down there so a reason to have a camp fire is always nice.

 

Just my 2 US cents.

[dan999ification]

we got them here, look ok in a big vase but i never found untreated wood. they are just thin sticks suited to weaving,finger thick or less, "floral" makes the ladies buy it i assume

 

 

dan.

[oldguy]

I am getting to the point, I can heft & eyeball just about any sort of cut dimensional lumber to tell if it will make good BP for lift, or spark effect. While not true in every case, it seems to me that the lighter & whiter the wood is with wide growth rings (denoting consistent fast annual growth) makes good charcoal for powerful BP. Examples below:

 

 

 

Conversely, light wood with very thin growth rings & more knots makes better charcoal for spark effects. Dense heavy hardwoods like oak & mesquite make good charcoal fuel for the BBQ or smoker.

 

A good place to find inexpensive wood for BP or Spark effect charcoal is places where they build prefabricated roof trusses. They end up with a lot of short odd lengths & scrap 2x4 & 2x6 wood. You can usually buy a tote, trunk, or truck full fairly cheap.

 

　

 

[spitfire]

I can't imagine there is a place where willows do not grow. A few weeks ago i saw that television show with a guy and his wife who try to survive in an emergency situation, they where in the middle of a dust-dry desert. When they finally reached a source of water what was growing? Willow trees! Rule of thumb, willows grow everywhere as long as there is a constant water supply. Luckily i live in a place where one can't even avoid willows, they grow literally everywhere. But, oldmanbeefjerky i hope you found a good source. Willow is what the pyro needs!

[Bcorso85]

There's another recent form that went into the discussion of how great pine cone charcoal is. Look around for it. I'm not sure what kind of ecosystem your part of Australia has, but if you have some pine trees around I would go for a nature walk with a bucket.

[oldguy]

Old pillow case works better than a bucket.

[oldmanbeefjerky]

I'm fairly certain floral willow has nothing to do with willow trees. If 500 g and $2 aus that is going to be some expensive charcoal by the time it cooks down. And it might not even be the right thing. Are you not close to ANY fresh water? Even a wet drainage ditch? Granted you are in Australia, but black willow grows like a weed where ever there is a wet area here. Ditches, drainage ponds, lakes, and rivers. Different continent almost exactly on the other side of the world from me so I could be completely wrong.

 

That said, there has to be some local wood that makes a hot BP with a good mill. What are some local trees? What is non pressure treated lumber usually made from? Usually little scraps are free and much of our lumber scraps make surprisingly hot BP. Plus if you have a retort and mill it can be fun to experiment. I went through my yard and got a limb of a bunch of different trees or enough to fill a little 1 gallon paint can with wood. By far the hottest charcoal I found I don't even know the name of the tree. Much hotter than the black willow I've tried a few times. Maybe some experimenting is in order. Plus it should be getting colder down there so a reason to have a camp fire is always nice.

 

Just my 2 US cents.

 

I live in the northern territory, in the wet season, nothing is dry. our rain drops are the size of tennis balls! they fall from the lft, from the right, and ill quote forrest on this one "sometimes it even rains straight up".

There are many places here (close to my house) willows should grow, yet they do not.

 

On some dams, when water skiing, i still didnt see a single willow.

 

 

 

 

 

My grandpa explained to me willows can grow here, but the high and changing tempuratures here interfiere with the trees flowering cycles or something, the point being that they cant reproduce in around darwin.

 

 

in victoria i did see that they grew around every fresh water river and puddle i ever saw. so much so in victoria they are now destroying all the willows.

 

also, most trees here are cyclone rated, super hard, sappy generally unbreakable. generally nothing here is softer than pine, even the native pines (i asume since they have needle leaves, but no pinecones, and the same bark).

Anyway, this is great for me since now i have a source of willow, and hopefully others in my situation will find some also.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't imagine there is a place where willows do not grow. A few weeks ago i saw that television show with a guy and his wife who try to survive in an emergency situation, they where in the middle of a dust-dry desert. When they finally reached a source of water what was growing? Willow trees! Rule of thumb, willows grow everywhere as long as there is a constant water supply. Luckily i live in a place where one can't even avoid willows, they grow literally everywhere. But, oldmanbeefjerky i hope you found a good source. Willow is what the pyro needs!

 

i dont disagree, in mildura on a lake which's name i forgot, i remember quite well all the willows growing on the waters edge. aside from the murray, mildura and surrounding areas are generally a great big red-soiled desert.

 

When i was in victoria though, it was only in places with lakes, dams and rivers though that i could find willows.

 

 

 

-edit-

 

 

Now, after almost a year of keeping an eye out, i finally discover a tree which can be used to make charcoal, after all this time!

Apparently there is a tree called the charcoal tree or "gunpowder " tree, which makes decent charcoal, almost as good as willow. also i think today i spotted a tripocal willow, it looked the same as other willows but with much denser foliage on the branches (or whatever the hanging floppy bits are).

 

All such coincidence.

Edited April 5, 2012 by oldmanbeefjerky

[busspuppy]

Plant a balsa tree. That stuff grows like a weed if it can grow where you live.

[Mumbles]

There are plenty of other good to great woods besides the ubiquitous willow tree. I've actually found that more often than not homemade charcoal of any sort makes decent lift. Any relatively light weight wood you find around will likely be fine. There is probably some local wood they use for general building. The things used for that are generally relatively clean, readily available, and relatively light. That would be my first thought of a direction to try.

[dan999ification]

most homemade softwood charcoal will make some good bp, hot use less not so hot use more, i have bought my fair share of pine [cheap knotty] furniture for charcoal, the missus cant understand, but it can make bp near my willow quality.

apple trees are a good source of wood as are pears for bp charcoal never tried it but its meant to be good and you must have apple trees somewhere.

tree of heaven may be the gunpowder tree, buckthorn, even japanese knot weed [grows evrywhere may not have found its way in oz yet]

newspaper made some very hot bp for me, i sort the colour print out and just use the black and white, my endburners could not survive it while i normally use willow bp evry one blew with newspaper bp, cooks quick, is free [ish] but you need a fair amount to make some charcoal, i just screw it up and pack it in a retort after my other charcoal has finished, theres always a bit of heat to do a batch of paper on the fire.

 

 

dan.

[baran420]

I live in WA (west Australia) and can concur that bugger all willow grows around here. If you live in Darwin, I would imagine that just about any seeds you sow would grow and thrive. Hell, up there you wouldn't even need soil, the air is so dense with water!! Get some Paulownia seeds over the internet-grows like a weed in many warmer parts of the world, and can make nice fluffy fast BP.

 

One thought on using the store bought willow twigs is that they would have a high bark to wood ratio. I recall reading that it is good practice to remove the bark before making charcoal and this would be hard for such sticks especially if they are painted and scented.

 

What are others experience on the removal versus non-removal of bark and the end product??

 

Cheers,

 

AB

 

ON second thoughts don't plant this stuff as it could become an awful weed and if not kept in check could become an uncontrollable weed. Along with Cane Toads, this species would not be welcomed!!! Maybe contact someone in Australia who makes musical instruments or wooden surf boards for off cuts instead.

Edited April 7, 2012 by baran420

[dan999ification]

What are others experience on the removal versus non-removal of bark and the end product??

 

 

you have the correct amount of charcoal if you take the bark off, the ratio could be wrong if there is bark in it.

remove the bark it contains minerals, impurities and possibly metals/foreign objects, barkless wood makes better bp anyway, most of the willow ive seen in furniture shops has been de barked but is treated with paint/varnish/hardener, you dont want the bark all over the house as it dries and cracks off.

 

dan.

[baran420]

Cheers Dan, glad I haven't been wasting my time removing bark and picking out the pieces that I missed once charred.

 

A little tip I can pass on that may save some effort on bark removal is when charring large pieces, leave the bark on and once charcoal I found that more often than not, it either falls off straight away or has mostly delaminated from the wood. This saved me heaps of time on my small batched Paulownia and willow runs.

 

I would imagine that this would not work so well on twiggy bits.

 

Cheers AB

[oldmanbeefjerky]

well the floral willow is just smothened sticks, i can see that some are from larger branches split into quarters. they have no scent, are extremely light, no bark, nothin, ill take some pics next time i get.

 

Also, when i move to queensland this october, i have full intentions of trying to plant balsa , paulownia and willow, for making Bp as well as for selling the charcoal.

 

Anyway, a while ago at my school i saw a tree, looked very similar to a willow, but the leaves were thicker and greener. ill take a photo of that one too, just to verify it is a tropical willow.

 

when said that the NT doesnt have any soft wooded trees, i was mistaken. i meant just around darwin.

everything around the coast, is super tough, and could probably survive growing behind the sand bar at the beach.

 

only soft wood aside from a possible small willow, ive ever seen around here is grapevine.

Its a hassle though to debark, ill try taking it off later after being cooked, hopefully it falls off.

[dan999ification]

Cheers Dan, glad I haven't been wasting my time removing bark and picking out the pieces that I missed once charred.

 

A little tip I can pass on that may save some effort on bark removal is when charring large pieces, leave the bark on and once charcoal I found that more often than not, it either falls off straight away or has mostly delaminated from the wood. This saved me heaps of time on my small batched Paulownia and willow runs.

 

I would imagine that this would not work so well on twiggy bits.

 

Cheers AB

 

taking the bark off will let you put more wood in the retort for my small batches that is important, i use a 1 litre paint can yielding 50g charcoal for willow and 25 litre for pine yielding about 2 pounds,

i collect crack willow,as the name suggests it cracks when you snap it and normally breaks clean, the trees dont do well single standing as they are weak needing the support of others i highly doubt its hardy enough to survive in aus but if you can find it the bp is up there with the best, storms also take a few branches down which is when i get it.

sticks up to and just over thumb thick are skinned and left a few hours any leftover will turn brown then skin again to ensure there is no bark and no soft "piff" covering the wood, this also helps to sort the knots out [ save the "y's" for catapults], anything over little finger thick is split in two or four, cook as is or let it dry, i always skin it wet, comes off easier but its suprising how much bark comes off wet/green wood as opposed to dry.

i find the extra care pays with good bp and at least one variable is canceled.

 

dan.

[Mumbles]

Most of the things I've read about leaving bark on or not also seems to assume it is never removed. Besides adding physical debris, it is also known to introduce a few of new resins and other coloring matter that is acetone extractable. Alder specifically is well known to do this. Typically the bark will char to a very high carbon content, which can change ratios a bit. It also increases residue after burning. These last two are more of an issue for firearms, but every little bit will help. The high carbon content should be able to be fixed by removing the charred bark, but I honestly am not sure if it would fix the added resins. The stuff could diffuse into the rest of the wood at cooking temperatures. Just the thought of introducing sand and other debris is enough to make me want to debark it.

[dagabu]

Debarking grape vines changed the powder terrifically while with poplar, it didn't change it at all.

 

-dag

[dan999ification]

the very first batch of willow i cooked i did not skin properly the resulting charcoal had shrunk considerably more than it does now and it had some discoloration not even black in places, i think that it must have had some resins even under the bark [ as i removed it] that did seep into the charcoal, it was also very hard to crush by hand the bp was inferior to bp made with the same but better prepared wood, that is why i let it brown off after the first skinning and then remove more unwanted material something you cant do if you cook dry wood as the "piff" under the bark wont change colour,sure the bark may fall off while charring but the piff is still on the charcoal, havn't tried it with other woods cos it aint broke so why fix it.

i think the time of year that wood is harvested also plays a part in whats in the bark and wood, willow for example has a higher sally acid content just after winter [which is meant to be the time to get some]so why not other resins,sugars acids etc at relevant times to the tree which would almost certainly have an effect on bp

if you dont skin, try one batch and you may be suprised.

 

 

dan.