feeln17 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 After much reading forums and doing other research I'm Thinking about learning to make some 1lb 3/4" rockets. can any of you experinced tooling folks tell me the differences ( other than obvious) in the 3 tooling sets i'm looking at. skylighter, wolter and United nuclear. the united nuclear are a new comp matrial, where skylighter and wolter are stainless and alumminum. any help would be greatly apprecated. also i would like to know to what height will this 3/4" go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wolter, Firesmith and dagabu's tooling are the choices I would make. Their tooling is made for use with the superior NEPT tubes available at HobbyHorse. These tubes really are that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Help me out dag, I'm typing from my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have 1# tooling from Wolter and Firesmith. I have 4oz tooling from Dagabu. Of them all, I like the tooling from Firesmith the best, but I would recommend and would purchase from all three of them again. My Wolter set was purchased used and I think he changed his design slightly since it was turned. Height depends on a lot of things, how hot the fuel is, how heavy the header is, time of delay, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 the tubes and sticks from hobby horse are of great quality and a fair price. until i get a tablesaw i can make small accurate rips on, i will buy my sticks from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 not familiar with the United Nuc tooling, but the others are all excellent choices.I like Dag's tool if you can get him to make them can't go wrong with any of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Help me out dag, I'm typing from my phone. Sorry stick, I was playing with our Kindle Fire with the wife all night and didn't look at APC Go with Ben's tooling, FIRESMITH he has the best there is... unless you can get Steve LaDuke to make you a set... -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) There you go. Some first rate advice if you wish to take it. Your next question should be about the proper fuel for traditional 1 lb core burners. And what does it mean to "stay green". Edited November 17, 2011 by stckmndn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hey dag, SLD spent a full hour on the phone talking with my buddy about his UT tooling. Rocket folks are good people. And the shell guys probably aren't all that bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have a LaDuke UT set. It's a bit shorter than some of the other tools - spindle length 4.5 inches, takes a 6.5 inch tube - and the spindle is fatter. Using the Rocket Tool Sketcher as a reference, it's like the "long winded screamer" drawing with a nozzle exit cone of 20 degrees instead of 140. Using 60:30:10 BP, the short, large core burns out very quickly - in static tests it appears to be about 0.5 seconds. The rockets take off like a bullet and estimating from the round-trip times of 18 to 20 seconds, they go over 1000 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 not familiar with the United Nuc tooling Me neither, can someone maybe provide a link? The 4 oz rocket tools I have were made by Bill Parker and they work just fine for me. Never tried Dag's but he is a pretty good guy all around so I Imagine his are good too. Steve Majdali's Bottle Rocket tools are nicer than Wolter's in my opinion as well. However in general Wolter tooling is fantastic and Firesmith Tooling (Ben) is also outstanding. You can't go wrong with either one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 http://www.unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=28_83 the spindle looks familiar... i brushed them off due to the nylon rammers and the fact that there is only 2. since the spindle is tapered, and there is only one rammer that is drilled, it stands to reason you would not get as good of compaction in the fuel grain as you move up the spindle. i was also concerned about the rammers absorbing more of the force of the mallet when you ram them because they are nylon. this may be only something i imagined, but i got great deals on all my tooling and have not needed to sacrifice quality. (even if it is only preceived that way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 pvc as i have researched doesnt hold up to hdpe that I am making as we speak,hdpe is my choice as i use wood at the moment and have used same for three years now in perfect shape well oiled oak makes the toughest,75.00 is alot for pvc,notice no divergent added to rammers and that will make a difference in your performance mate I have conducted test in this area,youll lift more using a 45 degree tapered end rammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 http://www.unitednuc...dex&cPath=28_83 the spindle looks familiar... i brushed them off due to the nylon rammers and the fact that there is only 2. since the spindle is tapered, and there is only one rammer that is drilled, it stands to reason you would not get as good of compaction in the fuel grain as you move up the spindle. i was also concerned about the rammers absorbing more of the force of the mallet when you ram them because they are nylon. this may be only something i imagined, but i got great deals on all my tooling and have not needed to sacrifice quality. (even if it is only preceived that way) Actually, the set is very good for pounding PVC rockets on site on the cheap. The two rammers have a total of three holes and one flat end that work just as well as aluminum rammers when pounding rockets EXCEPT that there is NO convergence on the nozzle rammer. The material is POLYHEXAMETHYLENE ADIPAMIDE - NYLON 66 - PLUS MOLYBDENUM DISULFIDE and is made to be very stiff allowing shock to travel down the length and not absorb it. For $75.00, this is a great HAND POUNDED rocket set but a lousy set for pressing rockets. Well worth the money. That said; I do not approve of the use of PVC for rocket motors, they will fragment into shards when they CATO, are not biodegradable and can be considered a pipe bomb if found by the authorities. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 i guess my impressions from the photos were backwards regarding the ramming with that tooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feeln17 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 WOW! You guys are something , never thought i would get into a bunch of guys who know their s#$%! thanks one and all. I'm a rookie when it comes to this except I have been thru 2 pryo schools .1 in richland,mo where i live and 1 in Ar. have my Lince in the works then I want to move to making shells and putting on shows, anyway I put on a show for my town, run by the volinter fire dept and we shoot 2500.00 worth of stuff off for the town. made a few of my own things also. So, should I not start with the 3/4 inch 1LB. Maybe start with a 1/2 lb. ,get some tubes , tooling, read, start building, read expermint saftly, read. etc. One other thing, can comercial goex be used if milled, I have used 4f and 2f in my thunder mug. I can get what ever I need. can 4 f be ball milled to make a good powder for rockets ? what is the difference between f and fa comps,? Anyway, thanks again for the suport and help, think I ll go look at some more tooling and get it ordered. I knew the pvc was a bad idea, been there-done that ! Just couln't figure why they would sell that idea, guess a lot of guys use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feeln17 Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 "stay green" referring to not using PVC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 That saying has absolutely nothing to do with environmentalism. It comes from a group of people called "green men". They would cover themselves in fresh leaves, and carry around large firestaffs or fireclubs as part of certain festivals or celebrations. The fresh leaves served to protect them from any errant sparks. The saying stay green has morphed a little, but it essentially means stay safe and has become sort of a closing salutation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mumbles is a shell guy. He enjoys making the rocket guys sound weird by purposely leaving the part out about the face paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 There is the green man thing, but according some other builders, the saying has morphed a little. To them "Stay Green" refers to staying in the mindset of a beginner and not to become complacent with risky compositions and techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feeln17 Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 ahh i git ya, it is the same in my business, trucking. I tell my driver all the time ,Always know you and your equipments limitations and never exceed them! thanks for the help. by the way Mumbles , I want to be a shell guy too. that is were my interests lie mostly, going to school in Richland Mo soon to take a course under Dwayne Lloyd in building shells and all the stuff that goes with it. never enough education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 If you are learning under Dwayne, you are learning under a good man. The company I shoot for uses his product, and I got the chance to work on a show with him this summer. He makes excellent shells, I am particularly fond of his gold flitter crossette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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