pyrothrust Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Can some one tell me the quality of the tubes that you use. and whether they are made from paper or card etc. I can buy 5mm wall convolute tubes made from 600 micron paper. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 NEPT (New England Paper Tubes) available at HobbyHorse are widely regarded as the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 i use the New England Paper Tubes from Hobby Horse as well. The 1# size comes in 2 thicknessess, and I have been using the thinner one and I am happy with them. I have also rolled my own from manilla file folders with an outer wrap of kraft paper with mixed results. It is a viable option if good tubes are not easily available. I will probably roll a few larger ones for gerbs in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Can some one tell me the quality of the tubes that you use. and whether they are made from paper or card etc. I can buy 5mm wall convolute tubes made from 600 micron paper. Regards1/4" homemade from 95gsm recycled kraft1/2" homemade from 95 gsm recycled kraft3/4" homemade from 200gsm binders board1 pound i buy for the extra peace of mind.make them you'll never run out.one trick i learned is if your paper is not thick enough for the tube you want double/triple up by gluing the layers together, a 95gsm paper becomes nearly 400gsm when you quad it and the tube needs a quarter the length of paper to start with making less turns but more od, i hate rolling tubes from long sheets of thin paper.if i could get them nept tubes are what its apparently all about. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I use 110gsm recycled kraft (150 micron) for everything from 12mm-32mm id. I make a lot of 19mm.x 4.75mm wall and they handle 9000psi with a support sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josefinalola Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What is the best way to roll your own tubes? Like around a dowel rod or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I roll some and buy some, depends on what I am making. Now that I am doing a little rocketry I have been buying NEPT Tubes from Hobby Horse as well. For lances and such, I roll those myself with 30# kraft. For fountains, saxons, end burners-wheel drivers, I use spiral tubes from where ever they are least expensive. I buy "Master Tubes" meaning tubes of at least 3" in length then I use a very fine toothed, Japanese pull saw and a miter box to cut them to the lengths I need them. This is a LOT less expensive than buying them pre-cut. Rolling your own tubes is also easy, a dowel will work but glue tends to stick to wood so I use a metal rod instead. Buy one that is the right OD for the ID of the tube you wish to produce. Then, again it is best to make master tubes so using the full length of the paper roll of your Kraft, decide how thick you want the wall of the tube, figure out how many turns this will require and cut a piece of Kraft, I use the 60#-70# stuff I get a a Big Box store for this type of thing, then smear white glue over the entire pice of paper except the part that will become the inside of the tube, the very first time around the rod. Then you just roll it up, keep it tight and straight as you go, and once you are done you can let the glue set up for a bit then slide the tube off and wipe it clean and start the next one. Leave your tubes hanging to dry for a day and when they are completely dry you can cut them to the desired length for the current project. Be careful to not allow them to flatten as they dry or you will get egg shaped tubes, this is why I hang them and some leave the rods in them until they are completely dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 what he said ^ with the heaviest,smoothest mandrel you can find, for rolling master tubes you will have to apply pressure across the whole length,[if you want strong tubes for rockes] something i cant do reliably longer than 12" because i hold the paper aswell, it sure would save time though, i prefer to cut the paper an inch too long, roll single tubes and trim the half" off each end or an inch off one if they roll straight.i also prefer to roll with a flat hand like feeding horses, keeps the pressure on the tube, when i roll with the fingers the tube is loose.depending on how fast your glue goes off and how forgiving the paper is you can twist the mandrel squeezing the tube and it will tighten up just twist the other way to loosen it and remove.while the tube is still on the mandrel take a board and push down on the tube while rolling it towards you [if you rolled it away] this removes any air pockets and gets you much stronger tubes with no voids. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josefinalola Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Do you have to paste the entire tube with glue? Because I have seen some made with a couple strips of hot glue to keep it from unraveling. I know pasting the whole tube would be much better for stronger tubes, but if I were to start small with a 1/2 in or 3/4 in inner diameter tube would it still be okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Do you have to paste the entire tube with glue? Because I have seen some made with a couple strips of hot glue to keep it from unraveling. I know pasting the whole tube would be much better for stronger tubes, but if I were to start small with a 1/2 in or 3/4 in inner diameter tube would it still be okay? for rockets yes you want strong tubes, for firing a single star or a low pressure fountain no, i have made fountain tubes with glue,no glue just some tape, and bombette tubes that are only glued for the first inch and the last, it just has to stand up to the ramming,you cant beat a properly made tube though.for good tubes paste the whole paper apart from the first turn round the mandrel.what do you want the tubes for?i would think that a half inch tube would be egg shape after the hot glue treatment. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Do you have to paste the entire tube with glue? Because I have seen some made with a couple strips of hot glue to keep it from unraveling. I know pasting the whole tube would be much better for stronger tubes, but if I were to start small with a 1/2 in or 3/4 in inner diameter tube would it still be okay? When pressing rockets, you will find that unglued tubes will spiral down when pressed and they will not stand up to much pressure. You will find that there are many here that have rolled tubes from all sorts of papers, all sorts of glues and all sorts of methods to do so and lot of them work very well but as far as rockets go, I think most agree that you need to use strong paper, glue the tube all the way and make the winding very tight with no voids. I roll small 7/16" ID tubes almost every night to keep busy and I use whatever glue I have at hand, I use chipboard scavenged from packing and a mandrel scavenged from a copy machine. These motors get a clay nozzle with a 7/64" hole, 5g of BP and 7/16" delay on top of the spindle and will fly 150'. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josefinalola Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thank you guys for the help. I'm new to pyrotechnics in general, but I have had some previous experiences with model rocketry so I thought it would be fun to try homemade rockets. I have seen a few videos, but i'm still working on getting tooling made and I wanted to find out more about tubes before I go any further. My friend, 6squirrels is focusing on star guns and mortars so eventually he can make headers for my rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6squirrels Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 speaking of tubes (in general), why do manufacturers and such make spiral tubes? parallel tubes are supposedly a lot stronger, and it seems simple enough to make them. take your paper, smear it with glue, wrap it. why then, would one choose to make a spiral tube? looks harder to make. are there any advantages (pyro / nonpyro) for spiral wound tubes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Spiral tubes are cheaper, faster, and easier to make. They can be made in continuous lengths, where as parallel are limited to the width of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 they are easy to make with the right method, i think its called the maypole, for paper towells and such strong tubes are overkill also expensive and heavy, spiral wound tubes can be made any length from narrow rolls of paper cheaply whereas convolute tubes need large sheets of paper and naturally cost more. dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO-c3y-53tQ&feature=autoplay&list=UUcmfB3g0Pq023Csnk7SDz-Q&lf=plcp&playnext=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrothrust Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Just received the NEPT 3# from Jim at Hobby Horse and all I can say is WOW!! along with the Woulter tube support the power and reliability have gone skywards . I was having good results with my treated tubes, but although they had good power the tubes were too unreliable, One minute I could lift 900 gms easily the next they were constantly blowing up on launch. treat a new batch of tubes and all was well again Now I can lift 1400 gms and think i must be some where near 1000 feet. I can count 12 seconds from the apoggee to ground impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassoundlikethunda Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Hey everyone. I am new to this forum. I don't see an introduction page/thread to start posting to be able to post a thread. I get tons of tubes (thick wall) in 2 different sizes. The smaller longer ones I get would be better for rockets, and the larger 3" ones I get would be better for mortars. I am trying to find forums where I can help you guys out and give you the BEST price online. I already looked on ebay and for the same size tubing I have, I can blow their prices out of the water (literally, no pun intended LOL). If anyone could help me out or point me in the right direction I would REALLY appreciate it. Be safe and God Bless. Edited May 30, 2012 by bassoundlikethunda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Bass, Post your tubes on the Agora, you will find it under the Miscellaneous section on the forum home page. Mumbles or Sidewinder will OK it first and then you can sell them here. I would like a sample of the tubes you say are useful for rockets, I am a bit of a tube whore... -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Welcome. The intro thread is here: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/145-introductions/ The area to sell stuff is here: http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/forum/25-the-agora/ The agora is a little tricky as you need either myself or TheSidewinder to manually approve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassoundlikethunda Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Ok good to know guys, thanks. I'm just putting them up as cardboard tubes on there due to different states having different laws. Hope that will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baran420 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hello, been a while. I am from a part of the world where tubes are best made. I have been having excellent results rolling 16mm (ID) tubes on dowel. I use an oak (Tasmanian Oak) which is a hard durable wood. I smooth it with 1200 grit wet and dry paper and then rub a candle over it to act as a releasing agent. For the glue I tried PVA glue, which worked fine but I thought the tubes dried at best to a rubbery hardness. I trialed a glue made from home made dextrin (cornflour on baking tray in oven until golden) and I found that this made an excellent hard tube with what I perceived as having excellent wall strength with respect to being squeezed sideways. I used Kraft paper (wrapping paper grade, no idea what thickness, but certainly not thick) and cut strips ~1.5m long x 120mm wide. I placed strip on a piece of flat formica coated board and squeegeed in the glue on one side, peeled it off and flipped it and squeegeed the other side. I ensured the paper was wet through but not soggy-returning the excess to the tin. I then wet the wood former until slick and started winding the paper on. Once a few winds were on I could use the adhesion of the remaining ~1.3m of wet paper on the board to keep tension on the tube as I carefully rolled the entire strip on the tube. Once all on I could could easily slide the tube off the former and put on the window sill in its end to harden-1 day in the sun. This made an extremely hard tube that I could ram without confining case in order to make successful BP rockets. as a rammer I simply used the same diameter oak but took enough diameter off to make a slightly sloppy fit inside the tube. Once set up I could produce about 10 good tubes per hour. It seemed like a moderately fun job, but I might be inclined to use bought ones if I had a shop nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 This made an extremely hard tube that I could ram without confining case in order to make successful BP rockets. as a rammer I simply used the same diameter oak but took enough diameter off to make a slightly sloppy fit inside the tube. Once set up I could produce about 10 good tubes per hour. You can make even a harder tube by using a flat piece of plywood a bit larger then the tube and roll the tube between the table and board in the direction you roll them. It tightens the paper significantly and presses out all the air bubbles. To get the tubes off the mandrel, go get a new piece of oak or better yet, aluminum and use a small bit of talc on the mandrel then roll the first wrap dry then add glue once you have had a full turn on the mandrel. Wet rolling or rolling on wood or with a wax release agent makes you press the tube off, pulling it off the mandrel will only result in tightening the tube around the mandrel and can damage the tube while pulling the outer coating of paper off the tube. Commercially, the tubes are pushed or pressed off the mandrel. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeee Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Bass, What are the inner and outer diameter of the tubes?Post your e-mail address I might want to stock up on some of your tubes.You can never have enough tubes on hand, or black powder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Sounds like they are 1.15" ID (1-5/32") and 29" long, spiral wound stretch wrap cores. They run about $1.00 a foot. Kevin over at Pyrocreations has 1" ID parallel wound tubes for $.80 a foot. -dag Edited May 31, 2012 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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