donperry Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Seen that video (nighthawkinglight) I'd like to know if anyone was able to use the sugar rocket formula is capable of this smoke without burning. I plan to shoot up red smoking rockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 That video is fake FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageRacer Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) That video is fake FYI. I believe this also. My start in all this a couple of years back was making smoke with some kind of sugar mix. I've used a bunch of them including dextrose, confectioners (powdered) sugar, lactose, sorbitol ...that's all I remember at the moment. You can forget the store bought dyes. Maybe that's not 100% correct but I never managed to get them to work. At that time I was using only KNO3 so that may make the difference... The proper dyes are very expensive, actually they are EXTREMELY expensive, and you have to use a chlorate oxidizer for them to work (correct me if I'm wrong Mumbles). I've only recently played with some blue smoke myself and got it to work, but it still does not billow out like some of the better devices I've seen. I didn't granulate mine, it was just powdered mix that I loaded lightly in a tube with some standard rocket nozzle material ( i.e. my favorite cat litter ) pressed in. I drilled the hole(s) and let er go. The camera really washed out the blue. I'll get back to it some day and make some blue smoke stars for daytime stuff. One of the things I was looking for was some tracer hints from little daytime missiles. Blue is probably a poor choice in this particular case, but it's the color that became easily available at the time. Here's the result of that particular experiment: http://youtu.be/pdEyPJykrCA DanB Edited October 21, 2011 by VintageRacer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 OK mumbles, Delete thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 OK mumbles, Delete thread actually these threads are good, they document fakery, might spare someone else from getting their hopes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Off hand I don't know of any organic dyes that can be used off the shelf with KNO3/Sugar. There are a few inorganic dyes that have promise. As usual though, the better the color the more toxic the compound. Most of those kind of formulas I know of use the hexachloroethane/Mg system. They typically need a fairly high "dye" loading, so I'm not sure how they'd work with KNO3/sugar. If you're interested in this red iron oxide is probably the cheapest, most easily available, least toxic inorganic dye available. Using the HCE systems as a basis, I'd start around 35-40% Fe2O3. It should give a red/brown smoke. It was unclear to me if the smoke is red/brown because of the iron oxide used, or if it just comes out that way. There are some iron oxides that are more red than others, and some more brown than others. The other viable option would be ultramarine blue. Apparently it's also available in a variety of other colors, but I only ever see blue and sometimes yellow from ceramic supply places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matchless Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 What exactly is "ultramarine blue"? Mumbles, your post lists it after your discussion of iron oxides which leads me to believe it is an iron oxide like you might find referred to here: Iron Oxide Blue (C431810)CAS# 1332-37-2 source ( http://www.essentialwholesale.com/Ultramarine-Blue-Iron-Oxide.) Or it could be what is defined in a glossery I found here on APC: Ultramarine Na3S2.3NaAlSiO4 (Sodium Disilicate) Fine Blue powder used to produce yellow flames. Unlike other Sodium-based yellow flame producers, Ultramarine stores well. Shimizu says it can be used with Ammonium Perchlorate.source( http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/3282-list-of-pyro-chemicals-and-terms/page__p__45171__hl__%2Bultramarine+%2Bblue__fromsearch__1#entry45171) Perhaps it is both? Anyway, I am interested in what Frederick Farnham was referring to in his 1886 patent (335065) for the first two-part strike-anywhere match. The example formula he gives for the larger bulb or safety match portion of the match is:24 parts chlorate of potash2 parts of ultramarine-blue16 parts black sulphate of antimony what ultramarine blue did he mean to use and why? color, control, catalyst? I am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I was speaking of the sodium aluminate you mentioned. It can be made into other colors based on ratio of components too, such as greens and purples IIRC. In that match formula I doubt it'd be able to introduce a lot of color. Antimony trisulfide is a dark grey to black compound. A mix of chlorate and it will be grey to black. At best, I'd think the ultramarine in there could give it a color of blued steel. When we were talking the other night, I saw something about silicates being added to match mixtures. This both smooths the burn and provides a solid cinder to trap the less solid reaction products. This prevents spray and molten reaction products from spreading. That could maybe be part of it perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Seen that video (nighthawkinglight) I'd like to know if anyone was able to use the sugar rocket formula is capable of this smoke without burning. I plan to shoot up red smoking rocketsJust to clarify, that's not my video. That's a fake process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That video is fake FYI. It looks like he made a duplicate "smokebomb" loosely filled with the contents of a marine smoke flare. I guess some folk's egos are built up from fooling others into wasting their time with unworkable pursuits. Be aware; Liars and deceivers are loose cannons that at the least, waste your time, and at worst can get you hurt. When in doubt, rule it out! WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's pathetic how many folks still write me asking if they can duplicate my "nu green particle emitter" (it's there on the tube) with that candy-fuel formula that's so obviously a fake. To my knowledge there is NO pigment/dye that will survive the extreme temp of a candy-fuel burn. (It's the physics of the true colored-smoke reaction, not the chemistry, that yields suspended particles of color). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have seen colored smoke rockets that someone made and showed pix and video of on Passfire, I am sure of it. I think it was in the thread I started asking about making smoke stars and daytime shells. This leads me to believe that smoke trail rockets should be doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's quite easy if you really want the effect. Tape a tube filled with a real smoke comp to the top of the rocket and run a passfire up to it as you would for a comet. Light fuse and retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFeve81 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Couldn't you make a regular cored BP rocket but use a smoke comp for the delay? Should start smoking pretty quickly after lift off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I suspect the dye would burn up in the core, and if not it would be mixed in with the BP smoke too well for it to be visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Speak of daylight pyro, y'all seen this? http://tinyurl.com/84ww6ou Go down and click on "the black ceremony teaser." Pretty remarkable stuff. Any clues what they used for the burst charge? Acetone Peroxide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 there is a whole thread on that display ShagaKhan... Chaka Khan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 there is a whole thread on that display ShagaKhan... Chaka Khan? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObjLb6ElTvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Uh, some hint as to where? (Did a search for "black ceremony" and got a few hundred hits with the words "black" and "ceremony" but couldn't find the pertinent one). Thanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 It's HERE -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagaKahn Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well duh. That's the downstream yu-toob hosting of the same video I sent the original link too. My query was in reference to where HERE on the list that thread might be that discussed the black ceremony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warthog Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ObjLb6ElTvsShe's a dancing machine! LOLThat's the very song I was thinking bout too.. My Search-Fu blows so I am not the one to ask, I don't think it was even referred to as the black ceremony in the thread. I think it was a thread all about daytime displays. if you want to search for two words together, use quotes, "black ceremony" is about all I can offer. Edited March 4, 2012 by warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donperry Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just to clarify, that's not my video. That's a fake process. That guy is not you????Crap, For over a year I followed him thinking it was you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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