Potassiumchlorate Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I've discussed this on the UKPS forum as well, but new feedback is always interesting. I use H3 for all my shells from 3" up to and including 6". In 6" shells I use H3 on cotton seeds, 52:48. Potassium chlorate is pretty cheap for me, but potassium nitrate is even cheaper. Is there any reason why one should not used granulated BP as a break? As late as in the 1940's that was what they used, as I understand it. Rice hulls/cotton seeds as a carrier is only to save weight and chemicals, from what I've understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 nope, I use it in 6' shells, but lately have been using coated rice hulls, easier for me than granulating BP (Arthritis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I've used it for 4". I was instructed by a commercial builder that granulated bp generally isn't used in less than 10"+ shells because the pressure ramp is not as steep as kp. Kp on hulls was recommended to me down to 3", and h3 under 3". Over 6" kp is used on cotton seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Under 3" I use 70:30 flash. I fill both hemispheres with stars and then put in 5 grams of flash. H3 on cotton seeds is very powerful in 6", but I think it's a little waste if BP can do the job as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 There are two reasons not to use granulated BP: The first is because it's wasteful. You use less than half as much BP to fill a shell when it's coated onto rice hulls. You don't add any more power to your breaks with granulated powder either - that is unless it's corned, which would be extreme overkill. The second reason is because the shells are much heaver when they don't have the lightweight hulls as filler. You will need more lift to get them in the air. I use granulated powder in canister shells, but that is only because hulls tend to get crushed and compact when the shells are lifted. It's not needed in ball shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Granulated BP works, but meal on hulls, seeds or Rice Krispies is more economical and lighter to lift. You will need to start again to optimise all the parameters esp pasting and lift weight as you change break powder, then you should minimise the chlorate/BP interaction possibility as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I really only use granular BP to break a shell with canisters, and small ball shells. 2" and under or so is the cut off for me. The majority of the weight, at least when filling as a poka shell, is provided by the stars. No shell that small really breaks all that well, so the little extra powder from higher mass from BP granules and possibly booster can only help. Plus I really only use them as inserts, so a perfectly spherical break is unnecessary. I just need a splash of color for what I use them for. That being said I've seen people recommending it for larger shells. I believe there is even a video out there from Dave Stoddard where he even breaks a 6" shell with 2FA. I agree that it is somewhat expensive and wasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I am a new in this i tried all of this method fo lifting but none of this worked Please help me ....I am using 75/15/10 combination.And one thing I don't have any dextrin to glue them, any other gum will u guys recommended ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 We really can't help you until you give us some details. How are you making the black powder? Milling? screening? mortar and pestle? etc. Also how long it is milled or ground for?What is your source of each of the components?Are you using it as a powder, or granulating even without dextrin?If you are still granulating it, how long are you letting it dry for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 i am doing the rice halls.and its compleatly dry.i mix them about 20 min . what is the diffrence to mix them 1 or 2 days to 20 to 30 min ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 i have tried all the methord. but one of the methord may be help for me . that is using flash powder as a lift and break.flash powder easy to make i think.i have all the supply , like kno3,sulfer,mag powder,alu powder. please help me to make a lift charger and brake charge flash powder and how to fuse them ? tnx in advance .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 i have tried all the methord. but one of the methord may be help for me . that is using flash powder as a lift and break.flash powder easy to make i think.i have all the supply , like kno3,sulfer,mag powder,alu powder. please help me to make a lift charger and brake charge flash powder and how to fuse them ? tnx in advance .... never use flash as lift it will hurt you dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 dot worry about risk . i want the result. so please help me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 i am fedup with bp. so i decided to do it with flsh powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 i am fedup with bp. so i decided to do it with flsh powder then your not doing it correctlyMy BP is too hot in some instances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 dot worry about risk . i want the result. so please help me ... you still haven't given us any information about your BP We can help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 kno3 75% , sulfur 10% and charchol 15%.and i mixed about 20 minutes.Then put some water and little amount of glue.And mixed it well.left it to turn dry 4 days.Now what I was doing wrong ??I dont have any ball mil.so I have to mix with my hand. And i m sure that they r well mixed .No grains remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 you can't get quality BP without milling.Milling alone will at least double the burn rate.Not all charcoals produce good BP, you need the more reactive types.What species of wood is your charcoal made from?You mentioned glue, what type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 i am using eggplant charchole. it is very femous for charchole. i am using regular glue , used for bunding . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I have used "weak" flash for 2.5" shells, but it's not recommendable. Most of them were dummies, just to test how it worked. This was before I had a ball mill. 5.5 grams of barium nitrate/magnesium flash 55:45 shot a 90 gram 2.5" dummy so high that it went out of sight, probably more than 200 meters high. They once used both flash and Armstrong's Mix to lift 1" and 2" shells, but that's even less recommendable, of course. This is from 1936: Spectacular Fireworks Another interesting thing, though even more off topic, is that he used strontium chlorate, which today is impossible to buy anywhere as to my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 can i use 50:50 kno3 and mag for lift or blust ? and please show me how 2 fuse them when i m using a flash powder ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yes, you can use it but it's not a good idea. The mortars might blow up. I used cardboard mortars and they were just 2.5". Is it for the Light Festival? It's just 4 days from now anyway. I don't want to disappoint you, but that is too short time to make stars etc. anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 PotassiumChlorate, I find it quite irresponsible of you to try to assist this guy in his efforts to use flash powder as a lift or break charge. Do you really find him competent enough to be making flash powder if he can't grasp the basics of how black powder is made? Rajib, your black powder is not working well because you're not making it properly. I trust you with the eggplant charcoal being known to be good in black powder, but it something I've never heard before. Nothing good about it, but also nothing bad either. To make good black powder you will need to put it into a ball mill. Just mixing it for 20 minutes will only yield a sluggishly burning black powder in comparison. A ball mill will grind your chemicals finer, and integrate them better than can be done by hand. If you can't get a ball mill your chances of making good black powder are very low. I will not be helping you use flash powder to do anything and hope no one else will be either. You are very clearly not experienced enough to be using it in any way. If you want to continue down that path you'll have to do it elsewhere though I really suggest you learn how to do pyrotechnics properly. It's not appropriate for a burst charge or lift charge in most cases. It is far too sensitive both in terms of it's physical properties and implementation to be used. I really suggest you do some reading and learn how to do things properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajib Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 i dont have barium nitrate. but i have kno3. i serch google for compotion ,found 50/50 kno3 and mag powder. good flash and sound 2.so can i try this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortartube Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 rajib. Forget about flash powder at the moment. You need to get your BP working properly and you will find that you can make MANY things without the need for flashpowder. With good BP, you can make fountains, wheel drivers, rockets, saxons, tourbillions, shells, serpents, hummers, willow and tigertail stars etc. You need to get used to making blackpowder well BEFORE anything else. Although nothing is entirely safe when it comes to compositions, BP is very forgiving. It is not particularly sensitive to many of the conditions that could cause a fatal accident with flashpowder. If you don't have a ball mill, try to get a second hand rock tumbler. It will take longer to mill, but it can make good BP. Use non sparking media such as lead to mill your BP. I can make very good BP with 10 hours milling in a rock tumbler. It is not as efficient as a proper ball mill but it does the job. DO NOT mill any compositions containing metal. Just use it for BP or BP based comps and add any metal afterwards if the comp requires it. Once again FORGET FLASHPOWDER until you are more experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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