mabuse00 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hey there, I could really use some NC-Laquer, but I can't find it here anywhere. Forget ping pong balls, I don't like that... Have you ever heard of "Zapon" laquer, especially the european guys?It's supposed to be a colorless NC-based laquer, dissolved in amylacetate, ethylacetate and ethanol. Used to cover metals and varnishing guitars... I cant find informations, what else they usually put in there and how it burns...I guess it's not very high nitrated stuff... Any Zapon experience here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yep. It is useful. I use it as is wherever NC lacquer is called for. For rolling stars it has to be thinned out and used in a suitable sprayer. I prefer the amylacetate, ethylacetate type (smells like lacquer thinner or so). It doesn´t redissolve in case you use premade stars e.g. dragons eggs in alc/water or straight alc bound comps. Great for eggs and stuff. I use the Clou Zapon, but also used Chestnut sanding sealer with success. Have a look for a larger bottle, 1litre or so, the small ones can be overprized. About Eur 18/litre is the best I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Eur 18/litre ...?? If the ping pong balls don't fit you, why not make your own NC...? It is a messy job, but it works great... and it can give you a lot of NC/lacquer for a few bucks. Sulfuric acid is available everywhere very cheap, and can be dampened in easy to get 99%. Some drain un-clogging products are >95% sulfuric acid, although they may come with a nasty black coloring agent but it doesn't affect the process of nitrating your cotton in my experience. Be careful of neutralizing the NC with a lot of sodium bicarbonate and let the reaction take place in a cold environment (i use a bucket buried in snow on a cold winter day) or you get a runaway that burns all your cotton. Also wear old clothes and a good respirator for the nitric fumes. It is a nasty job, but it gives you a lot of NC for a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Do you really think that´s worth the hazzle? Buying acetone or another solvent, sulphuric acid, going trough the process of nitration (which is not harmless), watching out for neutralizing an acid which is probably one the most undesirable in pyro (at least if you work with chlorates)... no I don´t think it´s worth it (but up to everyone of course). Other than that: that litre will last for quite a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Do you really think that´s worth the hazzle? Buying acetone or another solvent, sulphuric acid, going trough the process of nitration (which is not harmless), watching out for neutralizing an acid which is probably one the most undesirable in pyro (at least if you work with chlorates)... no I don´t think it´s worth it (but up to everyone of course). Other than that: that litre will last for quite a while... For me it is worth the effort, because my visco machine uses some NC lacquer on a year basis... You are right about the dangers of acid and chlorates, but when the testing paper says Ph 7.0 or slightly basic, i'm fine with it. Nonetheless, i rarely use chlorate based compositions and NC at the same time. Better safe then sorry. The second reason is, i like chemistry! Making pretty things that go boom from ordinary things is just something i like to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave321 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hey there, I could really use some NC-Laquer, but I can't find it here anywhere. Forget ping pong balls, I don't like that... Have you ever heard of "Zapon" laquer, especially the european guys?It's supposed to be a colorless NC-based laquer, dissolved in amylacetate, ethylacetate and ethanol. Used to cover metals and varnishing guitars... I cant find informations, what else they usually put in there and how it burns...I guess it's not very high nitrated stuff... Any Zapon experience here? zapon was used by ici in their dipping process for "vulcan" and "cerium" fuseheads. i guess it was a way to try to control the rate of evaporation of the solvent during the drying process following the dipping of the fuseheadcomposition suspended in the laquer. it was nitrocellulose in a mixture of amyl alcohol and amyl acetate. i am not sure what ratio of alcohol to acetate they used. i have not checked the evaporation rates bu i am guessing they are slower than the rate of evaporation of acetone. is this laquer available in europe / the uk ? dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It is available in the EU/UK. Those zapon/NC lacquers are great for priming btw: make a slurry with BP, brush it onto comets, bombettes etc. or use a spatula, then dip in 5FA grain. Not a single failure so far and super fast drying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It is available in the EU/UK. Those zapon/NC lacquers are great for priming btw: make a slurry with BP, brush it onto comets, bombettes etc. or use a spatula, then dip in 5FA grain. Not a single failure so far and super fast drying. That's a good idea. Although acetone always gives me a severe headache even when exposed to small amounts, waiting for water/dex prime to dry is worse sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave321 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It is available in the EU/UK. Those zapon/NC lacquers are great for priming btw: make a slurry with BP, brush it onto comets, bombettes etc. or use a spatula, then dip in 5FA grain. Not a single failure so far and super fast drying. where from ?i can only find it in germany dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabuse00 Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Thank you for your answers. If the ping pong balls don't fit you, why not make your own NC...? It is a messy job, but it works great... If I had more time, I would take that route for sure, just for the fun. But I don't think it's cheaper. Considering the low amount of stuff I produce even 250ml would last very long. Clou ZaponThat's the can I already held in my hands, but I was not sure I'll give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) where from ?i can only find it in germany dave E.g. see: http://www.chestnutproducts.co.uk/ Or do you refer to a special version of the lacquer? I´m not sure about your post. What´s the advantage of the product you described? I only know either alcohol or acetate based lacquers... Edited September 20, 2011 by AdmiralDonSnider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave321 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 E.g. see: http://www.chestnutproducts.co.uk/ Or do you refer to a special version of the lacquer? I´m not sure about your post. What´s the advantage of the product you described? I only know either alcohol or acetate based lacquers... ah right, you must be reffering to the product "cellulose thiners" yes ?thanks for the link,.........potentially useful for diluting a 25% nc in acetone solution. what i was reffering to was the the laquer used for fuseheads, described in the 2nd edition of "high explosives and propelants by s. fordham. dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabuse00 Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 @dave:I think the admiral meant this stuff:http://www.agwoodcare.co.uk/prod/chestnut_cellulose_sanding_sealer.htmlsince it's the only NC based stuff they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts