The best non AP Blue star

[dangerousamateur]

I'd like to do some experiments in that direction too.

 

What do you prefer? Copper oxide, carbonate, oxychloride...?

I can't get paris green and NH4-Perchlorate.

 

By "best" I mean the nicest blue.

Edited September 16, 2011 by dangerousamateur

[50AE]

Gonna advertise my prefered own blue comp, which is very cheap and nice.

 

Pot chlorate 67

Cu oxy 13

PVC 8

Shellac 5

Dextrin 5

 

Or the deeper, but less bright blue

 

Pot chlorate 66

Cu oxy 13

Lactose 14

PVC 7

Dextrin 5

[Xtreme Pyro]

There is already quite a bit of discussion on this topic here. But as far as the best blues go, it's really all about taste. Some like the metallic blues that tend to be brighter, but also have a slightly washed out colors. Others, including myself prefer organic blues that aren't as bright, but they are more blue. A few compositions that come to mind are:

 

 

Pyro Science Blue

KP--66.1

CuO--13.4

Parlon--10.7

Red gum--9.8

Dextrin--5

Shimizu B70

Perc - 63.8

Parlon - 13.8

CuO - 12.9

Red Gum - 9.5

Dex - 4

Pihko KP #2

Potassium perchlorate 63

Black copper oxide 13

Parlon 14

Red gum 10

[Arthur]

I've seen some nice blues fuelled with Hexamine, it produces a cool (by flame standards!) flame which helps the copper form blue emitting species in the flame.

 

Something like

 

Perc 60

Black copper oxide10

hex 10

PVC10

and red gum or dextrin for a binder to 100%

 

Tweak to taste but I found that a good star material. Chose the binder according to the solvent you wish to use -water is cheaper but alcohol is quicker to use.

[Peret]

Don't use copper carbonate, it's useless. All I got with it were some dim greyish whites. Paris Green makes nice blues if you can get it, but be prepared to do some experimenting, as there aren't many formulas and on top of that, many are very old and call for unobtanium like calomel or HCB. I made some ok blues with this formula:

 

Pot Chlorate 68

Paris Green 22

Shellac 10

 

... but after wetting with alcohol as directed, making the material into stars was a nightmare and the results didn't really justify the effort. I may try again substituting 4 parts of dextrin for 4 of shellac and wetting with water, per Lancaster.

 

I quite like the Veline metallic blue - it's a copper oxide formula that's bright and has good color. I have heard it can be improved by substituting lactose for half the red gum, don't know if that's true. I have a bag of copper oxychloride in the workshop, but it arrived too late to make any stars for July 4th and I haven't really done much since.

[dangerousamateur]

Sorry, I did no search at all

 

I hoped to find a "best" solution, but it's always the same, ask 10 people - get 10 opinions

I'm going to do some testing myself.

 

Don't use copper carbonate, it's useless. All I got with it were some dim greyish whites

Perhaps it was of inferior purity?

[Arthur]

Remember also that the choice of composition to be used is a constant process depending on materials available to you and their compatibilties with all the other compounds used.

 

"Colour Systems" (eg Veline but others exist) usually have all the incmmpatibilities ironed out. Their individual colour performance may be impaired to account for this though.

 

Sometimes complicated prime arrangements are needed to form separating layers. Commercial shells usually have to be formulated so that they will survive the manufacture and drying processes wet with water (because it's cheaper) and then there is a risk that they will be cycled through extremes of humidity during sea transport and summer storage in a sunbaked store.

[Bonny]

 

 

Pyro Science Blue

KP--66.1

CuO--13.4

Parlon--10.7

Red gum--9.8

Dextrin--5

Shimizu B70

Perc - 63.8

Parlon - 13.8

CuO - 12.9

Red Gum - 9.5

Dex - 4

Pihko KP #2

Potassium perchlorate 63

Black copper oxide 13

Parlon 14

Red gum 10

 

IIRC Shimizu B70 is supposed to use copper carbonate, the CuO was a mistake that has stuck around. I have never tried with copper carbonate, but with CuO the blue was acceptable.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Bonny

[Potassiumchlorate]

I've seen some nice blues fuelled with Hexamine, it produces a cool (by flame standards!) flame which helps the copper form blue emitting species in the flame.

 

Something like

 

Perc 60

Black copper oxide10

hex 10

PVC10

and red gum or dextrin for a binder to 100%

 

Tweak to taste but I found that a good star material. Chose the binder according to the solvent you wish to use -water is cheaper but alcohol is quicker to use.

 

Hexamine is a very good flame enlarger in all compositions but especially with blue ones. It makes the flame both much bigger and deeper in colour.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I just tested two pumped 10mm stars with Arthur's composition. The first was tested unprimed in a stargun; it didn't ignite. The second was tested on the ground and burnt with a very nice blue. Only disadvantage was that potassium perchlorate must be used instead of potassium chlorate (chlorate might form ammonium chlorate with the hexamine), but on the other hand the other chemicals are pretty cheap.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Today I tested Hardt Blue Star #6 with a couple of modifications.

 

Hardt's composition is:

 

Potassium perchlorate 62

Copper oxychloride 12

Sulfur 18

Dechlorane 4

Dextrin 4

 

But I changed it to:

 

Potassium perchlorate 62

Copper oxychloride 12

Sulfur 9

Hexamine 9

PVC 4

Dextrin 4

 

Pretty nice colour, fast burning and easily ignited even when moist.

[Potassiumchlorate]

I just tested this one, sorry, no video:

 

potassium chlorate 58

copper(II)oxide 15

parlon 15

red gum 9

magnesium 3

 

Use the parlon as a binder. It ignites without prime and gives a good blue even in broad daylight. The trick is to keep the Mg at just 3%.

[dangerousamateur]

Thanks for the proposals.

Did you try to use Magnalium intead of Magnesium?

 

Parlon bound stars are my new favorites, much easier to work with, the only drawback is the acetone smell...

[Potassiumchlorate]

No, I have magnalium as well, but I consider magnesium superior. The parlon protects the Mg from corrosion as long as the oxidizer is either a chlorate or potassium perchlorate. With ammonium perchlorate it's not sure that the parlon will protect sufficiently.But you were asking for non AP stars anyway.

 

Update: I tested the same composition with potassium perchlorate instead, and surprisingly it seems that it reacts even faster.

 

Update again: the potassium perchlorate version is a bit harder to ignite after a few hours and burns a little brighter but is still a pretty good blue when fired from a star gun.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Potassiumchlorate

[Col]

Don't use copper carbonate, it's useless. All I got with it were some dim greyish whites.

 

I quite like copper carbonate blue, it isn`t as deep as say Pihko KP #2 but its far from greyish white

carbonate blue

[Potassiumchlorate]

This one is also quite good. It's supposed to be aqua, but I find it more "pure" blue and it contains both oxide and carbonate:

 

Bleser Aqua

 

Barium chlorate 53

Potassium chlorate 12

Copper(II)oxide 8

Copper carbonate 8

Red gum 10

Dextrin 4

[dangerousamateur]

@Potassium chlorate:

 

Thanks for all these proposals - but what was the nicest blue?

 

I don't like to buy so many different chemicals

 

 

 

[Potassiumchlorate]

@Potassium chlorate:

 

Thanks for all these proposals - but what was the nicest blue?

 

I don't like to buy so many different chemicals

 

 

 

 

I actually tested AE50s first composition, and it was very nice.

 

But the composition with parlon and 3% Mg was also nice. To me it seems that potassium chlorate makes it a little deeper but perchlorate makes it brighter. Perchlorate is more expensive for most amateur pyros but also safer with Mg.

[Mumbles]

@Potassium chlorate:

 

Thanks for all these proposals - but what was the nicest blue?

 

I don't like to buy so many different chemicals

 

 

 

 

 

Nicest is all up to the eye of the beholder. You'll have to try some out and figure it out for yourself.

[Potassiumchlorate]

50AEs first one is the cheapest if you can get hold of potassium chlorate to a really decent price. It's also one of the nicest organic ones I have seen. But like Mumbles says, it's in the eye of the beholder. Some people might like bright white-blueish blue and others the deep blue.

[dangerousamateur]

I'll make a comparison soon.

 

Say:

 

Pihko KP #2 Potassium perchlorate 63 Black copper oxide 13 Parlon 14 Red gum 10 Add 25% alcohol / 75% water

 

Why is alcohol/water used here?

There are no water soluble contents...? Why not "pure" denatured alcohol?

 

Or, considering the high amount of parlon - why not acetone?

[Algenco]

I'll make a comparison soon.

 

Say:

 

Pihko KP #2 Potassium perchlorate 63 Black copper oxide 13 Parlon 14 Red gum 10 Add 25% alcohol / 75% water

 

Why is alcohol/water used here?

There are no water soluble contents...? Why not "pure" denatured alcohol?

 

Or, considering the high amount of parlon - why not acetone?

 

 

I would use Acetone

[Mumbles]

I don't know where the instructions came from, but they could have been in reference to +5 parts dextrin being added. If you really want to be sure something wasn't lost along the way, the original formulas are all posted on rec.pyrotechnics in the google group.

[Potassiumchlorate]

Pihko was a Finnish chemistry student, if I remember correctly. I have only heard good things about his compositions. They are also quite cheap, since they contain much of (relatively) cheap chemicals like parlon, red gum, sulfur and dextrin and only 54-60% perchlorate.

 

And another composition. This is an improvement of Arthur's, skipping the red gum and upping the hexamine:

 

Potassium perchlorate 60

Copper(II)oxide 10

Hexamine 16

Parlon 10

SGRS 4

 

Loose powder is hard to ignite but burns fiercefully and intensely blue once ignited. Made a few test stars. They'll have to dry for some days.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Potassiumchlorate

[californiapyro]

i don't know where you're getting chemicals, but my red gum and parlon are definitely more expensive than perchlorate...