pyrosailor99 Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi all! yesterday i tried to make my first D1 glitter pumped stars i taken the formula on http://www.vk2zay.net/composition/5 (same on pyroguide) but i really don't understood how much boric acid dissolve in the water. i made a batch of 50g. and added 10% of water (alan say 6% but it seemed to me too dry...) in that 10% of water (5g) i intended "1 part of boric acid" as 1 part of the batch... so 1% of the batch is 0,5g. i added 0,5g on boric acid in 5g of water.i have to say that half boric acid don't dissolved into the water... i pumped stars and made also microstars rolling it in a round ultra glide plastic container, shaking it by hand in a round way for about 1 minute. i let it dry overnight and for about 8hrs in a full hot sun (air temperature about 36°C with about no wind). the microstars and also the pumped stars (8mm diameter) seems to be dried as it make a sick 'clak' when i break some long piece i leaved and the core seem to be dry. i've not tested any star at the moment, but some minute ago i've scratched a piece of comp from the paper where yesterday some star comp dripped and tried to light... i have to say the result was very bad. that little little drip of comp on the paper lighted enough fast but burned slowly and made about no glitter. could it be i've added too boric acid?could it be IT SEEMS dried but it will take several days? thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi all! yesterday i tried to make my first D1 glitter pumped stars i taken the formula on http://www.vk2zay.net/composition/5 (same on pyroguide) but i really don't understood how much boric acid dissolve in the water. i made a batch of 50g. and added 10% of water (alan say 6% but it seemed to me too dry...) in that 10% of water (5g) i intended "1 part of boric acid" as 1 part of the batch... so 1% of the batch is 0,5g. i added 0,5g on boric acid in 5g of water.i have to say that half boric acid don't dissolved into the water... i pumped stars and made also microstars rolling it in a round ultra glide plastic container, shaking it by hand in a round way for about 1 minute. i let it dry overnight and for about 8hrs in a full hot sun (air temperature about 36°C with about no wind). the microstars and also the pumped stars (8mm diameter) seems to be dried as it make a sick 'clak' when i break some long piece i leaved and the core seem to be dry. i've not tested any star at the moment, but some minute ago i've scratched a piece of comp from the paper where yesterday some star comp dripped and tried to light... i have to say the result was very bad. that little little drip of comp on the paper lighted enough fast but burned slowly and made about no glitter. could it be i've added too boric acid?could it be IT SEEMS dried but it will take several days? thanks all! H2O is a glitter killer,you should email mumbles he can explin better than I,I suggest winokurs mate you can get reddish golden and silver glitters cheap fine or coarse!if you like I have 5 favs that are proven crowd pleasers! All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi all! yesterday i tried to make my first D1 glitter pumped stars i've not tested any star at the moment, but some minute ago i've scratched a piece of comp from the paper where yesterday some star comp dripped and tried to light... i have to say the result was very bad. that little little drip of comp on the paper lighted enough fast but burned slowly and made about no glitter. could it be i've added too boric acid?could it be IT SEEMS dried but it will take several days? thanks all! It's OK, let them dry a while longer and shoot them from a star gun. The D-1 is disappointing on the ground but is terrific in the air. Congrats on your star making, you found out some of the issues that others run into and the problems with micro-chemistry. I usually do 1 kilo batches so that I don't have to worry about .5g additions of single chems. D-1 dries pretty fast and with the addition of just a tiny bit of alcohol, they dry even faster. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Thanks all friends! Great news is that i've just tested a microstar and a normal pumped star in daylight and it burned very very well. nothing related to my first burn test on the dried drip...i have a VIDEO and i post it here. i know, i should to test it in the night and see if a trail is visible, as in the daylight no glitter is visible especially for a static star on the ground. But the good news is that the glitter burned all very well without problems. http://tinypic.com/r/2m65ueq/7 Congrats on your star making, you found out some of the issues that others run into and the problems with micro-chemistry. I usually do 1 kilo batches so that I don't have to worry about .5g additions of single chems. Thanks! making 1kg batch don't change the fact i don't understood how much Boric Acid mix in the water... what do you think? 1 part boric acid in the 6% water (or 6% of 25%alchool solution) mean 1% of the total mass, 1% of the liquid solution or what else?? i hope i will make another video this night testing my flying stars (i will test also my new little batch of granulated BP for lift c.) Edited September 9, 2011 by pyrosailor99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megabusa Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I use 75% water 25% IPA with 2% (by weight) boric acid dissolved in it. If I understand you correctly, you say you added 0.5g boric acid in 5g water ? That is 10% in the water It could be too much, I've never used it that high. Make a larger batch (1 litre) of water/alcohol & add 2% boric acid, it will keep in a plastic bottle to use later. Try not to wet the D1 too much as it's performance is reduced. However I do cut my D1s with success, using more water than I theoretically should do. Works for me. Edited September 9, 2011 by Megabusa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I use 75% water 25% IPA with 2% (by weight) boric acid dissolved in it. Try not to wet the D1 too much as it's performance is reduced. However I do cut my D1s with success, using more water than I theoretically should do. Works for me. Thank you but again "with 2% (by weight)" 2% on what? on the comp mass weight? or on the water weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 There are two ways to add boric acid to a composition. You can either add it dry, in which case 1-2% is typically used. The more efficient way is to use a boric acid solution to dampen the stars. I typically used the second method, as it is easier and works better. The instructions in the formula are certainly confusing. There is no way you'll get 1% of the composition weight's worth of boric acid dissolved in the small amount of water they recommend. The maximum solubility of boric acid in water is around 5-6% weight/volume, so your observation that half of it didn't dissolve sounds about right. I make 4% stock solutions personally. You end up using a lot less boric acid. At 25% water for cutting the 4% solution still only adds 1% to the total comp. Now, I find that boric acid often does more harm than good, and is usually unnecessary. I can't count the number of batches I've ruined by trying to wet them with boric acid or gum arabic or something when I shouldn't have. Boric acid and it's solution cannot be used with MgAl based glitters. The boric acid attacks the metal. Honestly, the only time I use boric acid anymore is if I am working with a formula known to readily react (D1 is not one of them), or if I am using flake aluminum in combination with a basic sodium salt (bicarbonate or oxalate). When pumping stars, formulas are even less likely to react. I wouldn't worry about adding boric acid to this comp if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Thanks for the suggesion Mumbles! i will try. Anyway i want just share with you all my happiness as some hour ago i tesed a micro-starmine with my d1 glitter stars and it was so beautiful. i can't really transmit my happiness in this moment as this are my very first 'high spectacular' kind star i've made! the first starmine completely done by my work and basic chemicals, no commercial device! i'm about moved to tears. previously i made a little batch of tigertail stars and it was really good, but this are not so beautiful as gold glitter. this is one of my favourite (maybe the most) effect for stars. i adore it in microstar! yes, it's sure i have to do much pratice and optimize comps based on the quality of my chems etc but i'm really happy now.:lol: i will make a video on the next starmine and i will post it. the first was small to test a single star so i made no video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) here the videohttp://s1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/psailor99/fire%20sights/?action=view¤t=d1glitterstarmine.mp4 http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/psailor99/fire%20sights/th_d1glitterstarmine.jpg Edited September 9, 2011 by pyrosailor99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Oh, that's nice. It glitters better than my D1, which generally comes out more like a silver streamer. I never use boric acid in my D1, by the way. I figure it would react with the sodium bicarbonate in the comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted September 10, 2011 Share Posted September 10, 2011 Boric acid does not react with sodium bicarbonate. It's not an acid is the most classical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megabusa Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thank you but again "with 2% (by weight)" 2% on what? on the comp mass weight? or on the water weight? By weight of the water / IPA mix - i.e 1kg of water / IPA (about 1 litre) with 20g of boric acid dissolved in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Being that water has a detrimental effect on glitter comps, has anyone tried using a different binder than dex? I'm currently using .04 dex. Can I use more dex or a different binder without damaging the effect ? I am rolling these so I'm using around 10% water (75/25/+2boric) which is almost borderline for glitter, but it is taking that amount to work. I may be rushing things too much building up stars but they are perfectly round and all very close in size in a 1K batch. I've only been rolling stars a few weeks so any rookie mistakes possible I'm sure I've made some. So far glitters I've tried are D1 and N1 and a variation of it with bright flake which I really like but it is a little messy. They all work great, but I'm concerned about too much water being used. I've looked around for info on rolling glitter stars here, Passfire and others with limited results. Any input or links would be greatly appreciated. Edited January 6, 2012 by DanielC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Being that water has a detrimental effect on glitter comps, has anyone tried using a different binder than dex? Friends of mine are successfully using Mowital (Polyvinylbutyral) bound with alc. Works like a charm and eliminates moisture problems. The problem connected to water wetting is not the water itself but the prolonged drying time when more water is used.Lloyd Sponenburgh on rec.pyro provides the correct description: Glitters can take quite a bit more moisture than the recommended maximum of 8% so often recommended in how-to books. However, any drying regimen that causes the stars to stay wet over about 48 hours will result in a deteriorated effect. The longer they stay wet, the worse the effect. The aluminum slowly reacts with the nitrate, so long as moisture is present. I have had rolled D1 stars refusing to make a single spritz reaction due to bad drying conditions (high humidity). On the other hand, D1/glitter stars can be rolled flawlessly without special precautions concerning the water content when the stars are dried frequently, e.g. using 3mm growing increments, and providing a good drying environment (low humidity). Basically any technique keeping the drying time short is successfull. Forced heating speeds up detrimental reactions, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 The phenolic resin that was available last summer works well with alcohol and sure dried fast! A couple guys over at PF even used NCL to bind it but complain that they do burn faster that way. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 There was just too much moisture in the stars when I put them into the drying box. I was just concerned about gassing. There was a slight odor after an hour or so. I did another batch took my time and less water and it worked great. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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