stckmndn Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I need to lift a 300 gram header to an acceptable height (for 72 1/2" RG1 pumped stars) on a 1 lb core burner. I have both the Wolter BP and dagabu 1 lb tooling. Can you help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderBoy Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) What are the approximate dimensions of your spindles? Edit: Er, I guess about how long is the Wolter BP spindle? and I assume by "dagabu 1 lb tooling" you mean H-U spindle/UT? Edited July 31, 2011 by WonderBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) 9.58 mm at the nozzle entrance and 4.50 at the tip of the spindle. The spindle is 134 mm tall from the nozzle entrance and 150 mm from the top of the base. That's the Wolter set. Edited July 31, 2011 by stckmndn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 I lifted a 300 gram header about 100' today. It was really sad. I was using a pretty weak fuel of 60 KNO3/ 20 80 mesh/ 10 air float/ 10 sulfur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Try 75:15:10, make it as hot as you can, add just a gram per 100g of BP of mineral oil to help consolidate it all and leave out the nozzle clay, that's right, NO nozzle. Make a few of these because you need to test the fusing. Fuse one at the top with piped black match and if it CATOs, back down to lighting it half way up and so on. Remember to add an adequately long delay so you get the coast or you will blow early, too much delay and it will turn around on you. I like 2 increments of the same fuel for delay. I get 1000' with 300g routinely with these. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I lifted a 300 gram header about 100' today. It was really sad. I was using a pretty weak fuel of 60 KNO3/ 20 80 mesh/ 10 air float/ 10 sulfur. so do a 600 gramer and get 500 feet good viewing range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 so do a 600 gramer and get 500 feet good viewing range Someone wasn't paying attention.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I use scratch mixed 75:15:10. Basically, commercial airfloat with very finely milled KN03, and the sulfur as it comes all screened together a few times through a fine screen. I've had a cato with that mix so if you get a cato, add 10% more charcoal and try again. Keep adding charcoal untill the catos' go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Someone wasn't paying attention.... that be me I guess,j Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Try 75:15:10, make it as hot as you can, add just a gram per 100g of BP of mineral oil to help consolidate it all and leave out the nozzle clay, that's right, NO nozzle. Make a few of these because you need to test the fusing. Fuse one at the top with piped black match and if it CATOs, back down to lighting it half way up and so on. Remember to add an adequately long delay so you get the coast or you will blow early, too much delay and it will turn around on you. I like 2 increments of the same fuel for delay. I get 1000' with 300g routinely with these. -dag I used 75/15/10 green mix polverone in my first nozzle-less rocket the same day and it flew to about 400'. Are you talking about mill dust polverone? And how exactly does one mix only 1 gram of mineral oil to the batch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nater Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 ^^ Dissolve the mineral oil in something that will evaporate quickly like lacquer thinner or coleman fuel so you can mix it in with the fuel and knead it together. I started with the skylighter article about nozzless rockets and it worked for me. I had to add a little more lacquer thinner than the article suggested to get the fuel hold together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I used 75/15/10 green mix polverone in my first nozzle-less rocket the same day and it flew to about 400'. Are you talking about mill dust polverone? And how exactly does one mix only 1 gram of mineral oil to the batch? Like Nater says, add it to camping gas and spray it over the BP on a sheet of kraft, screen it a couple times. I have a spray bottle full of a 2:1 mix of Coleman fuel and mineral oil that I use for whistle and BP. Milled BP, not pulverone. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 Like Nater says, add it to camping gas and spray it over the BP on a sheet of kraft, screen it a couple times. I have a spray bottle full of a 2:1 mix of Coleman fuel and mineral oil that I use for whistle and BP. Milled BP, not pulverone. -dag OK. I'm still confused. Could you explain the process in a little more detail? Do I wet the milled dust and then push it through a screen? I'm still a little fuzzy on the terminology regarding pulverone / polverone. I could be dense here. So accept my apology in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Pulverone is just large BP, mill dust is milled powder that has not been pressed into pucks yet. If you spread this out and spray the camping gas mixed with mineral oil on it and then screen it a few times to make the comp homogenous. You can whet it and screen it as well if you want larger grains but I dont find this to be necessary. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 4, 2011 Author Share Posted August 4, 2011 Thanks everyone. I found Ned's tutorial at Skylighter. It's a great step by step tutorial about what is being discussed here. DJ's Speed Rockets So this is a tutorial on 4 oz rockets (1/2" ID). It says this motor can lift 2.5 oz (71 g). What does that translate into for a 1 lb rocket motor (3/4" ID)? Very interesting that NO clay is used at all. No nozzle, no bulkhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yup, Taken from DJ's Nozzleless design. I have been making them for a while and they are great for hot fuels since they are hard to CATO. No bulkhead... that means that you will need at least 2 increments of delay to keep the pressure coming out the correct end. 50:50 black powder: whistle fuel works very well to lift larger shells (4"-5") to a good viewing height. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Thanks everyone. I found Ned's tutorial at Skylighter. It's a great step by step tutorial about what is being discussed here. DJ's Speed Rockets So this is a tutorial on 4 oz rockets (1/2" ID). It says this motor can lift 2.5 oz (71 g). What does that translate into for a 1 lb rocket motor (3/4" ID)? Very interesting that NO clay is used at all. No nozzle, no bulkhead. let me know how yours does Im doing nozzeless now also.I ask Ned and he said hes doing a curve for 1# rockets to see the diff from nozzel to less.I have a 330 4 inch going up if my test go well,good luck keep me posted on your progress please J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 Yup, Taken from DJ's Nozzleless design. I have been making them for a while and they are great for hot fuels since they are hard to CATO. No bulkhead... that means that you will need at least 2 increments of delay to keep the pressure coming out the correct end. 50:50 black powder: whistle fuel works very well to lift larger shells (4"-5") to a good viewing height. -dag Thanks dag for the delay info. What happens to the flight of the rammed DJ rocket when the fire peaks through the delay? Obviously other than lighting the header. I don't have the means right now to press rockets and I'm kind of resisting doing it. I'd like to keep it simple for now. There's much to learn and no hurry. I'd rather concentrate on good craftsmanship and traditional design until I can get that down pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 5, 2011 Author Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) let me know how yours does Im doing nozzeless now also.I ask Ned and he said hes doing a curve for 1# rockets to see the diff from nozzel to less.I have a 330 4 inch going up if my test go well,good luck keep me posted on your progress please J Good luck with the 330 gr 4". And it's going up on a 1 lb rocket? A large header can look pretty unstable on a rocket motor and I've read about some pretty huge rocket headers. But as of yet (except for cplmac) not seen prefire pics. If anyone has a pic of a ridiculously big header on a rocket I'd love to see it. And along those same lines is anyone working on making them more aerodynamic in regular practice? I'm testing again Sunday. I'll post my findings. Edited August 5, 2011 by stckmndn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I've said it before. The colored rocket propellants can take up 4" ball shells with ease. I'd imagine that hybrid rockets, and easily whistle rockets could do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Good luck with the 330 gr 4". And it's going up on a 1 lb rocket? A large header can look pretty unstable on a rocket motor and I've read about some pretty huge rocket headers. But as of yet (except for cplmac) not seen prefire pics. If anyone has a pic of a ridiculously big header on a rocket I'd love to see it. And along those same lines is anyone working on making them more aerodynamic in regular practice? I'm testing again Sunday. I'll post my findings. We had several large bore rockets launch larger ball shells last year with a very climatic group effort by Ned and Dan T. late in the convention. Dan was running (really) around telling everyone that he was launching in ten minutes. He was just shaking with excitement, and Dan never gets excited. It was launched way back behind the quagmier and I don't think there were any pictures but I will ask around. There was much talk about rocket stick length and ball shell size in relation to the motor and Danny Creagan made the ugliest rocket I have ever seen that had a 5" empty ball shell (talk about messing with balance) and a 1# motor and three 12" sticks. It flew straight as an arrow. PROOF -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allrocketspsl Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Good luck with the 330 gr 4". And it's going up on a 1 lb rocket? A large header can look pretty unstable on a rocket motor and I've read about some pretty huge rocket headers. But as of yet (except for cplmac) not seen prefire pics. If anyone has a pic of a ridiculously big header on a rocket I'd love to see it. And along those same lines is anyone working on making them more aerodynamic in regular practice? I'm testing again Sunday. I'll post my findings. I will top a 1# nozzeless only if the first one doesnt cato other wise it will be on a cored 2lb cored rocket which i have done last week with no problem,i would like to see a colored rocket take a large shell i have not as of yet seen,they always have reports on them! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I will top a 1# nozzeless only if the first one doesnt cato other wise it will be on a cored 2lb cored rocket which i have done last week with no problem,i would like to see a colored rocket take a large shell i have not as of yet seen,they always have reports on them! J If I had anymore fuel, I would make one for you next week All. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 More fun~ Here is a pic of a heavy lift that Dan Thames did last year, a 6# with a 10" ball-shell. http://www.pyrobin.com/files/heavy-takeoff-2.jpg -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntoteninfadel Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 now thats funny looking. I am going to have to try some larger ones on my 1# tooling. What does a 10" weigh more or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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