Somthing wrong with lift

[RamblesTheGoat]

Yesterday I got some 1 and 2 inch shell hemis in the mail, I tried to make my first 2 inch shell and I used my homemade granulated black powder for the lift ( using 1 tenth the shell's weight). When I lit the shell, which seemed like it fit perfectly in the tube, it went about three or four feet up and went off on the ground. I am guessing that it was somthing wrong with the BP.

 

It was pretty coarse granulated, probably about 1 to 3 mm.

I used garden sulpher, I think 90 percent sulpher. When I made the charcoal (willow), the paint can still had some of that protective coating on it which was in the charcoal when it was done. Those are the only things that I think could have effected the burn rate.

 

P.S. The shell was 20 grams ( so I used 2 grams of lift)

[Ralph]

Yesterday I got some 1 and 2 inch shell hemis in the mail, I tried to make my first 2 inch shell and I used my homemade granulated black powder for the lift ( using 1 tenth the shell's weight). When I lit the shell, which seemed like it fit perfectly in the tube, it went about three or four feet up and went off on the ground. I am guessing that it was somthing wrong with the BP.

 

It was pretty coarse granulated, probably about 1 to 3 mm.

I used garden sulpher, I think 90 percent sulpher. When I made the charcoal (willow), the paint can still had some of that protective coating on it which was in the charcoal when it was done. Those are the only things that I think could have effected the burn rate.

 

P.S. The shell was 20 grams ( so I used 2 grams of lift)

 

 

 

higher purity sulfur would be better

you haven't mentioned a mill time dose this mean you didn't mill it ?

you also haven't mentioned a binder did you add one ?

 

20g is a little light for a 2" shell (when I make 2" I like to use pulverone instead of hulls and mine range from 45-55g or so) and therefore would make a poorer projectile (but it still should fly further than that)

[RamblesTheGoat]

I used a mortar and pestle, there was no binder, and it was granulated with 70% alcohol.

 

It was 20 grams because i I had a lot of trouble getting the two hemis together and some fell out, but not that much, probably about 2-3 grams of burst (which was also my homemade BP)

[FrankRizzo]

I used a mortar and pestle, there was no binder, and it was granulated with 70% alcohol.

 

It was 20 grams because i I had a lot of trouble getting the two hemis together and some fell out, but not that much, probably about 2-3 grams of burst (which was also my homemade BP)

 

Mortal and pestle ground BP ingredients aren't going to make suitable lift powder. At the very least, you need to mill your charcoal and sulfur together as fine as possible, then add a boiling hot water solution containing the dissolved postassium nitrate, and granulate through some 1/4" hardware cloth. You'll need to use about 2-2.5x the powder.

[Ralph]

I used a mortar and pestle, there was no binder, and it was granulated with 70% alcohol.

 

It was 20 grams because i I had a lot of trouble getting the two hemis together and some fell out, but not that much, probably about 2-3 grams of burst (which was also my homemade BP)

 

mortar and pestle is your first problem

 

your grains wont hold together atall particularly not if you used 70% ethanol 30% water that will hardly dissolve any potassium nitrate (the onlyting that would have held the grains slightly together)

 

EDIT:frank beat me to the post

Edited July 16, 2011 by Ralph

[RamblesTheGoat]

I don't have a ball mill or the money to buy one, will a coffee grinder work?

[Ralph]

NO !

 

not safely

[RamblesTheGoat]

Even if I grind the ingredients separately?

[pyrojunkie]

Do you have any Red gum? You can make fairly decent powder using the instructions given on Skhlighter by just screening it, and binding with Red gum and alcohol. Your best option is to get a mill though.

[Seymour]

Not really true.

 

You cannot start out with crap, add 2% red gum and suddenly have something serviceable. The skylighter "red gum method" only works if what you already have it fairly decent, at the very least airfloat charcoal.

 

Somehow they've managed to convince a lot of people that the "red gum method" is something revolutionary, while the only improvement is that your polverone takes less time to dry than if you used a water based binder. No great improvement in my opinion.

 

If you cannot be bothered making, or buying a ball mill then you will be seriously disabled in your pyrotechnic pursuits.

 

However you can still force even quite atrocious "black powder" to perform with reasonable power if you confine the lift charge. If you put it in a little plastic baggie and paste a few layers of paper over it, you should e able to get effective lift.

[layedbackkustomz]

seymour is right. and confinement is a great way. also you said u have 20g shells and used 2g of lift. when i make smaller shells eg.35 grams i use 5g lift smaller shells seem to take more bp lift the larger shells.with a 20 i would try 4g confined then work from there. -lbk-

[Bonny]

I don't have a ball mill or the money to buy one, will a coffee grinder work?

 

You NEED a ballmill!! Without one you won't really be able to make much of anything. I am curious though as to what you put into a 2" shell that only had a total weight of 20g??

[RamblesTheGoat]

I don't have red gum, only dextrin. I do have an old rock tumbler though, that should work right? Also, even if my BP won't work for lift, will it still work for burst if I put it on some rice hulls?

[Seymour]

Well, it depends on what you consider to be working? Do you want a Horsetail break, or a Warimono? Both are perfectly nice, but you're unlikely to achieve a Warimono (symmetrical round break) at that size, even with good BP. Horsetails are well within your reach.

 

It's not going to perform the same as good BP, but if you paste it twice as much as normal, that'll ramp the pressure up and you should get some results.

 

I put lift and burst in the same category with your powder. Both will work with lots of confinement, but will not be so good as decent BP.

 

Your rock tumbler is a good start. It's unlikely to be able to handle the weight of the 50% by volume media Ball Mills have ideally, so you'll have to compensate with very long milling time.

 

Despite what others may have said, you can get very good BP with a mortar and pestle, but this means cutting back to about ten grams, and grinding away for a few hours. You can see why we prefer ball mills.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Seymour

[dan999ification]

seconded,

you can make good bp with a mortar and pestle, small batches but you can i can make it in half an hour so do/have others here and i still do if i only need 10g for a prime or a few meters of bm. i do mill the bulk of my bp

cans and balls have been lifted sucsessfully from 1-3 inches even 10mm od firecrackers.

you can also granulate it without a binder if you have to.

if you have dextrin add 2% and corn it this will give you heavier shells anything under 3" i use pure bp no filler to get them higher.

you dont need super fast bp to a degree as said more confinement for better breaks and more lift for the same height.

it will improve over time.

 

dan.

[Algenco]

10% rule doesn't work with small shells, anything under 3" I use about 20% of shell weight

I definitely have hot lift powder too

[dan999ification]

my first 40mm shells weighed in at a little over an ounce and the first lift wasn,t up to much, they would go 30ft max with over 5g nearly 20%and only spat out with a poof. since then i make my small shells on the heavy side 55-65g use a 15 inch gun and make them tight fitters, as the quality of my bp improved i can get away with 10% but the general rule of thumb is that smaller shells require more lift.

http://youtu.be/nSrJ0R2e_jo

6g for a 55-65g shell it really only needs 8% to be at a visible height or back into the shorter guns, you will find what works for you, smaller than prescribed granulation will also give you a significantly better louder more agressive lift but there is a line between lift and the mortar grenading on you.

 

dan.

 

 

[Bonny]

10% rule doesn't work with small shells, anything under 3" I use about 20% of shell weight

I definitely have hot lift powder too

 

I agree. I don't think there is an actual rule that will work with homemade BP. tHE GRAIN SIZE MAKES A DIFFERENCE TOO. For 1" shells that weigh probably around 20g (never weighed one) I simply use 5 grams -10+20 corned BP. For 2" shells I just bump it up to about 10g of the same BP. Chinese 2" can shells (consumer packs) use about 7-8g of what appears to be -20+40 BP. Once I get to 3" I used to use about 1/10 of the shell weight, now I just weigh about 16-18g and attach to the shell without weighing, unless I have something that is noticeably lighter/heavier.

[spitfire]

As no one seems to see what accident is about to happen, here is a warning....

 

Rambles, just for your information, as a beginner it is hard to make good BP but making a ballmill is well worth the effort. As beginners tend to rush things and often forget what energetic materials do once lit and confined, i have a valuable warning for you. NEVER try to use any other composition as a lift powder! I am not acting like your mum here, many beginners make the mistake with the best intentions. Including me when i was a kid. Making good BP is almost a hobby by itself, it's fun and very rewarding.