Blackthumb Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Tried something new....fun to experiment. Bought large container of nickel plated BB's at Wallyworld.Tossed them in with some previously milled BP......tumbled for an extra 4 hours....saw a difference!Almost had 'air float' BP! Happy 4th everyone....gonna go light a few now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Blackthumb - You've just found out why commercial milling operations use smaller media for grinding ultra-fine powders. However, nickle plated or not, those BB's are steel underneath that thin coating. They are not appropriate for milling pyrotechnic mixtures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguy Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 The thin plating will wear off after a short while.Not so much from abrasion with powders, but from knocking against themselves. If I want to go super ultra-fine, I do a BM run with 5/8ths or 1/2 inch zirc m media, then a 2nd run using 1/4 inch zirc m media.You talk about ultra air-float, that does the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarSeeker Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I sure hope black thumb has a blast shield around his ball mill or better yet have the whole thing on an extension cord outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 The thin plating will wear off after a short while.Not so much from abrasion with powders, but from knocking against themselves. If I want to go super ultra-fine, I do a BM run with 5/8ths or 1/2 inch zirc m media, then a 2nd run using 1/4 inch zirc m media.You talk about ultra air-float, that does the trick. HOLY Batt S**T, Fat Man!!! I ran out of coated rice hulls last night and with a pyro-buddy coming over this morning, I needed some good BP milled like right now!! With this new zirc media, I thought, "What the heck, lets see what this stuff can do!". I let 1000g of granulated KNO3, 80 mesh charcoal and lumpy sulfur grind for an hour and then emptied the jar and refilled it. I finished my 10th run at 10:00 AM (yes, I slept from 10:00 PM last night till 7:00 this morning) this morning, added a pound of dextrine and whetted 1.5 kilos of rice hulls for a 6.6:1 coating. I never bothered to see if it was reactive after milling it but after four hours of drying in this beautiful sun, the coated hulls were dry and crispy. I got all the hulls divided up and stowed and took 2 grams to light out back. WHOOSH! Perfect smoke ring, all gone in a blink of the eye. Thanks OG, that zirk media was a real blessing today! -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 For those of you who've experimented with it, approximately how many pounds of this Zirc M would I need for a 2gal jar (ie. 1 gallon of media)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 (edited) For those of you who've experimented with it, approximately how many pounds of this Zirc M would I need for a 2gal jar (ie. 1 gallon of media)? Gimme a sec and I will weigh it out for you... -dag 30# for one gallon of the 1/2" zerc media. Edited July 9, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankRizzo Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntoteninfadel Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 , that zirk media was a real blessing! -dag No kidding! I love that stuff too. Have not run more than 10-12 batches but man is it fast and grinds it down to next to nothing. I did use 1/2 and 1/2 1/4" and 1/2" media. Dag, somethng else I noticed. With 90 days of use on my .45 lead balls they now average .41 some as small as .38 and a couple of weirdos that have an odd star shape to them. I guess they were not "hardened". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguy Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Once I caught on to & bought Zirc M media.I traded off 70+ lbs of lead balls for almost nothing.But kept 30# for slider type fishing sinkers. Once you use Zirc M media..... you will be a believer.I sure am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 No kidding! I love that stuff too. Have not run more than 10-12 batches but man is it fast and grinds it down to next to nothing. I did use 1/2 and 1/2 1/4" and 1/2" media. Dag, somethng else I noticed. With 90 days of use on my .45 lead balls they now average .41 some as small as .38 and a couple of weirdos that have an odd star shape to them. I guess they were not "hardened". I have a baggy of the first lead I ever used in a ball mill, it was a Lortone 3# barrel and was half filled with .38 bullets, heat treated and all, they are all .30 now and I keep them around to remind me about how bad they were. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Once you use Zirc M media..... you will be a believer.Hallelujah, amen! I'm a believer. Testify, brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSM Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Allright, you guys talked me into it. I just took the plunge for 50 lbs of zirconia media. I expect I'll see it by next weekend. I hope I love it as much as you guys do, because I'll have a life time supply soon. WSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Hallelujah, amen! I'm a believer. Testify, brothers. I once was blind, but now I Z. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach25 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hello all new here. I have a heavy duty 5 gallon size SPEED-D-BURR Rt-1. I have no docs on this baby and I hoping someone has used one before for BP. Its welded size sided barrel is thick gadge and inside coated with rubber with heavy latch door closing. It's was used as deburring tumbler but isnt that essentially the same as a ball mill ? Just wanted to know if I could use it to double ball mil some BP. I am more into AP composites for rocketry but aerial shells have always facintaed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntoteninfadel Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 5 gallons!?!?!? That would be awesome. You could turn some serious BP in that baby! What rpm does it turn? Do you think it could handle a 100lb charge and still turn? Even if it is slow you could do so much in one run that you would not have to use the thing again for weeks. Sounds promising mach to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguy Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) Hello all new here. I have a heavy duty 5 gallon size SPEED-D-BURR Rt-1. I have no docs on this baby and I hoping someone has used one before for BP. Its welded size sided barrel is thick gadge and inside coated with rubber with heavy latch door closing. It's was used as deburring tumbler but isnt that essentially the same as a ball mill ? Just wanted to know if I could use it to double ball mil some BP. I am more into AP composites for rocketry but aerial shells have always facintaed me. Do you have a picture of the big puppy? If so post it.I saw one years back. It wasn't an RT-1..... I think it was a "Miser".Huge sumbitch, but it would double as a ball mill. Edited July 29, 2011 by oldguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach25 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Yes I will upload next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willot1 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Any good suppliers of this Z media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguy Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Any good suppliers of this Z media? http://cgi.ebay.com/Zirconia-M-Grinding-Media-3-8-inch-used-20-pounds-/160632166560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25666c58a0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Does media size matter? I would assume someone with a jar with a bigger diameter would want their media to be smaller in size, because gravity would cause a greater impact between media. Also, more surface area would be available to aid in efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguy Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 (edited) IMHO, It depends on the hardness & weight of the media.Plus how fast it wears.Lead & even antimony hardened lead wear down.So, the more you mill with it, the smaller it gets.50 caliber lead balls turns to 38 caliber, then 25 caliber fairly fast if you mill a lot. Plus, it also depends on what you are milling.Things like Al and/or Mg/Al are far harded than straight soft chemicals, or BP.I would not try to mill Al or Mg/Al with lead or A/lead.As it would the wear the media down very quickly. For prills of any sort, I reduce them down in a remote blender, before milling. I run Zirc M 1/2 & 5/8ths inch media in my 8 & 12 in PVC jars.If I want things milled to super air float size, I run 1/4 & 3/8ths Zirc M after I do a run with the bigger media.The Zirc media is HARD. For high quality milling media, you will spend as much if not far more for the media.Than your mill costs. LOL, for a big load of 1/2 minus white pine charcoal, I start out in a 12 inch jar will standard size billiard balls.Once its reduced to fines, I go with the 1/2 & 5/8ths Zirc M Edited August 10, 2011 by oldguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 All this stuff is very fascinating. I know lead is very dense. According to wiki it is 11.34 g·cm−3, but at the same time, it is also very soft. I'm wondering if maybe an efficient ball mill has less to do about density than material hardness and diameter media. I mean, it's hard to argue the results you guys are getting with the Zirc M media. Maybe if someone had some spare time they could run some #4 or #3 lead shot in a mill and compare it to 1/4" Zirc M Media, and take a sample and do a burn rate test every hour after the initial hour. And then also do the same test with the larger media, maybe 1/2" and 000 Buck shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I had been using 000 buck shot lately. It's hardened, which is nice. It mills very quickly and efficiently if everything is all reasonably fine. It however has very little crushing power if you start with coarse ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stckmndn Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Would it be possible to have the theme music from Jaws come up each time oldguy posts his ball mill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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