usapyro Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) I succeed in making H3 so bad that it can't lift a D1 star out of a star gun with a well fitting star... Half a tablespoon successfully lifted the star six feet in the air... Holy crap... Took me three bad roman candle tests to figure out what was going on. When I was trying to shoot out stars with a tablespoon of H3 and it wasn't working I knew something was wrong... My previous willow H3 could blow a eight layer paper tube with a teaspoon... It seems that this is a very bad mix... KCLO3/Charcoal(Airfloat Pine)/Red Gum - 75/20/5...The stuff with water and dextrin is 5x as fast. Gah... Off to slave up some Willow charcoal and make some proper H3 and BP... Seems you can't use Alcohol/Red Gum to make fast granulated H3 like you can with BP... Edited June 30, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I would say particle size is the problem,you need a ballmill,why are you using a burst composition to lift stars,sounds like you need to master the art of blackpowder,you have willow charcoal so there shouldn't be a problem if you have a ballmill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Ballmilled some willow overnight. About sixteen hours actually. Stuff ended up more like lampblack... Clumpy and super fine. When it gets on my hands it looks just like lampblack... Ugh... Mixed together ungranulated it seems slower than the last batch. 75/20/5 KClO3/Charcoal/SGRS... Bit too much SGRS in this batch... Going back to 75/22/3... Granulated it should be good though. Edited July 2, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) I can't believe I am still without a ball mill. I made large batches last year using turbo pyro method and it was really fast. This year not so much, maybe not enough drying time? It's currently drying in the driest room of the house with a dehumidifier. I read the post about wet mixing BP and re crystallization of KNO3. I think my putting dry mix threw fine screen I broke them back down, thus giving a fast BP. I had a large quantity of GOEX given to me so I wan't very concerned with speed from my home made stuff until now. I granulated this years batch and I'm hoping I will get good lift. I'm kind of bummed out right now over loss of car, so I'm not enthusiastic. Needless to say turbo pyro wet mix method can produce ok results if done properly, but there is no substitute for ball mill if you want professional results. Edited July 2, 2011 by Vrizla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 re-mill granulated powder, it will make it a bit faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Sigh... My last batch with too much binder was a total failure. I rammed the stuff with a long pole. in small amounts. (It isn't very sensitive even though it's chlorate.) The granules I ended up with were SLOW... It seems to be important to make the granules "airy" and not too compact... I was doing some testing and I think Shimizu 78/22 H3 is way over oxidized... 75/25 is good stuff. This new ratio should be better... 70/27/3 KClO3/Charcoal/SGRS... Seems to have less white residue and smoke and be faster. I'm suspicious of my 16 hour ball milled willow... I think two hour stuff is faster. Edited July 3, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEskimo Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Is there a reason that you are using H3 as lift? Considering your previous posts, I wonder why you're dealing with chlorates at all. I wouldn't even be dealing with H3 if I couldn't get normal BP to work properly. If you can't get BP to work, why try substituting it with a chlorate mixture?And ramming chlorates? I have never worked with the stuff, but I hear that doing so is generally not conducive towards remaining whole and hale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Thats what I was thinking at first,but he's got a ballmill and willow charcoal so good blackpowder wouldn't be too hard.I think he's just perfecting his H3 and using a stargun to gauge its performance,I could be wrong though. algenco I wouldn't want to re-mill granulated H3 nor would I direct anyone to do so. Edited July 3, 2011 by jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peret Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I was doing some testing and I think Shimizu 78/22 H3 is way over oxidized... Yes it is over-oxidized - by design.That's because it's intended for use as BURST, not lift. Other authorities (Bleser for example) have reported an excess of oxidizer improves star ignition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thats what I was thinking at first,but he's got a ballmill and willow charcoal so good blackpowder wouldn't be too hard.I think he's just perfecting his H3 and using a stargun to gauge its performance,I could be wrong though. algenco I wouldn't want to re-mill granulated H3 nor would I direct anyone to do so.The cost alone is a good reason to make BP instead I'd think. Well, if you are going thru alot. Decent corned BP is the way to go for lift. Besides, H3 can shatter shells and tubes, kinda like it was developed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 yeah there's no way in the world I'd be wasting potassium chlorate in burst compositions when I could get just as good results with blackpowder,but then again if I lived in the states and had access to bulk supplies it might be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 yeah there's no way in the world I'd be wasting potassium chlorate in burst compositions when I could get just as good results with blackpowder,but then again if I lived in the states and had access to bulk supplies it might be a different story. If you don't mind the extra work and you have a hard time getting it you could always buy/make a chlorate cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thats what I was thinking at first,but he's got a ballmill and willow charcoal so good blackpowder wouldn't be too hard.I think he's just perfecting his H3 and using a stargun to gauge its performance,I could be wrong though. algenco I wouldn't want to re-mill granulated H3 nor would I direct anyone to do so. ahh, my mistake and it could have been a bad one. I was talking about BP. On the subject of BP lift I've decided I prefer coated rice hulls, very consistent in size/density and seems to burn better than granulated/corned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 My worst batch was CIA method BP, miserable! I almost quit pyro when that happened. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 My worst batch was CIA method BP, miserable! I almost quit pyro when that happened. -dag Same here. Before I had a ball mill, that was the only option. 10 grams launched a 2.5" dummy 5 meters or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50AE Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I remember my first first BP.. My second was hot. But my truely first was made with CIA method and unmilled raw charcoal from eBay. I just remembered the sweet smell, because I added perfume to the alcohol. It burned like blackmatch. My second BP was made with newspaper charcoal and ingredients milled in a cup and a wooden dowell. Damn, it was hot and I was so happy then! A friend wanted to buy me the only 5g batch of hot BP I had for 1euro, but I refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck45 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 LOL My worst batch of BP? Followed some half baked "recipe" for "fast powder" when I was 13. Burned as slow as KN03 and sugar when unconfined!! Oh the horror! On the topic of Ball mills, I think it should be the second thing a proper amateur buys, with the first being digital scales. If I had a ball mill back then, would have got alot more done, and had real BP. Cant do much without BP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiapyro Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 agree on that, i got scale first, ballmill second, then better scale, then better ball mill... ah my first BP, it required 50 grams to lift a 2 inch shell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntoteninfadel Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) Check this out...... i thought it was awesome bp.... untill i lit it! &%@!&! sideways again! lol IMG_02651.MOV Edited October 15, 2011 by guntoteninfadel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Worst lift powder... still gives me nightmares to this day! In my young and inexperienced days of pyro, my first lift was made with Sodium Nitrate and beech charcoal. That sucked big time. It was back in the time when i just got into pyro as a 14 year old boy. I didn't know i was using NaNO3 instead of KNO3... Internet was a fairly new thing, actually we where the first to have internet in our street due to my dad's work at the time. It must have been around 1993/1996... i made kilos of that terrible unusable stuff, just because i didn't know any better. Looking back at those days... shame, learning curve, disappointment ...but a strong will to get the best. It brought me all over the world. Wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The first lift powder I made was a joke if nothing else. It would lift small stars in mines, but my very first shell barely broke at 50 ft. on the way back down...so sad. I thought I would be stuck building fountains and slow rockets forever. Finally, I broke down and bought a ball mill and media as well as made my own charcoal from red alder I had lying around my wood shop. I milled it with 1% dex and granulated it to around 4fa. What a difference. When I tested a small line .25in about 6" long it nearly took my mustache off. I have used commercial bp a few times but the amount used to lift with homemade bp is roughly half. Also you can be pround of making it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 In my opinion, buying gunpowder for your pyro projects is a lazy man's way. Making good BP is a whole world on it's own, an experience taught with trial and error. Once you get it right, one will discover it is the basis of all your pyro, all your little backyard tests, rockets, mines, hummers, fountains, fuse, lift, break, prime... small details for an outsider, but a huge primary powder you will use almost all the time... and you've made it all by yourself. Nothing compares to your own high quality BP produced by the kg. At least, this is what i have been chasing for years and now it is one of my greatest goods. Just the knowledge, AND put into practice. Man, i love the smell of fresh gunpowder in the morning straight from the mill!! to inspire others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntoteninfadel Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 There is no doubt that creating BP is an awesome experience in and of itself. I had to go pick up my kid from school the other day. As we were walking out of the building he turns to me and says "gee dad you really smell like bp". I thought I was clean ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potassiumchlorate Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The feeling of making good BP: *You are a skilled craftsman*It is a decent, honourable work*It is the base for all of your pyrotechnics*You are acquaintanced to those old guys in China and India more than 1000 years ago inventing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 If BP were as cheap as it was 20-30 years ago, a different tune may be sung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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