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USAPyro's No-NC Dragon Eggs


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#21 usapyro

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:07 AM

I just fully wet the stuff in alcohol and work with it as a putty in my hands. I put it between two sheets of wax paper(Or Al foil and wax paper), place spacers on either side and roll a dowel across the wax paper to spread it to thickness... Then let it dry for a few minutes with the top wax paper peeled off and put slices down through it.

If trying lead I would try first just keeping the ratios the same... Mix up a 10-20 gram batch and test. I have a high accuracy scale. It's necessary for making small amounts of comp when tuning. Tell me your results and we will go from there. I wouldn't recommend subcarbonate. The trioxides are where it's at! B)

Edited by usapyro, 17 January 2012 - 12:13 AM.

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#22 justhininabouti

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 04:55 PM

I just fully wet the stuff in alcohol and work with it as a putty in my hands. I put it between two sheets of wax paper(Or Al foil and wax paper), place spacers on either side and roll a dowel across the wax paper to spread it to thickness... Then let it dry for a few minutes with the top wax paper peeled off and put slices down through it.

If trying lead I would try first just keeping the ratios the same... Mix up a 10-20 gram batch and test. I have a high accuracy scale. It's necessary for making small amounts of comp when tuning. Tell me your results and we will go from there. I wouldn't recommend subcarbonate. The trioxides are where it's at! B)



USAPyro - Thanks for the reply. My scale is only accurate within 1/10 of a gram, but I am going to try a small batch w/Lead Tetraoxide as I only have 15 - 20 grams of it anyway. I wont be able to do any tweeking, but It will give me an idea of how it works while I wait for my Bismuth Trioxide.



Thanks again for the reply.

#23 warthog

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:52 PM

Now if I could find some Bismuth Trioxide I could afford, I'd be in business. Posted Image

I am filthy with Red Lead though. Posted Image
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#24 usapyro

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:45 AM

Btw, if you have any trouble with your 100-200 MgAl... My main comp was tuned for HobbyChem 100-200 50:50 MgAl. If it doesn't perform as well maybe they are using a different barrel... LoL! Bismuth dragon eggs tricky buggers...

warthog... Don't light too much of that stuff on the ground. Inhaling vaporized lead is a great way to get a lot into your body easily.

Edited by usapyro, 18 January 2012 - 04:46 AM.

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#25 justhininabouti

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:07 AM

Btw, if you have any trouble with your 100-200 MgAl... My main comp was tuned for HobbyChem 100-200 50:50 MgAl. If it doesn't perform as well maybe they are using a different barrel... LoL! Bismuth dragon eggs tricky buggers...



That's where I get My MgAl.

#26 warthog

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 01:50 PM

warthog... Don't light too much of that stuff on the ground. Inhaling vaporized lead is a great way to get a lot into your body easily.

I don't light any of it on the ground. They all go skyward. Posted Image

I don't take chances either, I wear my gloves and a mask when making them. I am dumb enough, don't need any help from lead. Posted Image

I would join in on the experimentation but right now I am not able to access the work site so no pyro for me for a bit.

Edited by warthog, 18 January 2012 - 01:52 PM.

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If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10).

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#27 justhininabouti

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:55 PM

If trying lead I would try first just keeping the ratios the same... Mix up a 10-20 gram batch and test. I have a high accuracy scale. It's necessary for making small amounts of comp when tuning. Tell me your results and we will go from there. I wouldn't recommend subcarbonate. The trioxides are where it's at! B)



Just tried my 1st batch w/lead. It burned very quicky, with minimal crackling (No Bang). It went straight to burn(Very bright).

One possible problem... The MgAl I used is 100 mesh, I used the formula for the 2.5-5mm eggs. As the formula specifies 100-200 mesh, I think this may be the problem.

I have 200-325 mesh MgAl, so I will try the smaller eggs with the base formula, and post my results.

If you have any suguestions I'd love to hear them.

#28 justhininabouti

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:47 PM

Second Test using 200 - 325 MgAl (2mm eggs). It gave nearly the same results.
On a side note... I burned off the remainder of the first test batch, it burned like the individual eggs except at the very end I got one moderate pop. This leads me to beleave there is hope, but tweeking for the Bismuth formula will be required. I've got enough lead for another few tests, but wont be able to get to it for a few days. by then my Bismuth should be here.



I'll post any updates to my lead tests, and would welcome any input.

Edited by justhininabouti, 18 January 2012 - 07:48 PM.


#29 warthog

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 07:58 PM

where can a person even get Bismuth Trioxide these days? All my sources are out and say they will be for some time now.

I have NINE POUNDS of Red Lead though.... well, when it warms up I suppose I will se if I can get crackling. semi-pun intended. :)
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#30 justhininabouti

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 08:38 PM

where can a person even get Bismuth Trioxide these days? All my sources are out and say they will be for some time now.

I have NINE POUNDS of Red Lead though.... well, when it warms up I suppose I will se if I can get crackling. semi-pun intended. :)



USAPyro pointed me at uspigment.com. Note they call it Bismuth Oxide.

#31 warthog

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 11:25 PM

dang! They even have Realgar! Thanks!
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#32 killforfood

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 11:50 PM

Now if I could find some Bismuth Trioxide I could afford, I'd be in business. Posted Image


That's the problem right there. $35 a pound. Ouch!
I'll probably just get some red lead.

#33 justhininabouti

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:10 PM

I got my bismuth yesterday and ran a test batch using 200-325 MgAl. It gave the exact same results as my 2 batches using Lead (one with 200-325 and one with 100 MgAl), straigh to burn with small crackeling. As a test, I used USAPyro's Small egg formula (Optimized for 200-325 MgAl) using 100 MgAl, and it worked perfectly. My MgAl must be of a different grade then USAPyros.

I really like the reaction with the Bismuth, and I think that will make a great ent to a willow star of somethin similar. I'm going to put together a bigger batch, and try to put together some matrix stars.



Warthog - If you would like to collaborate on some Lead tests, it would sure be nice to get this effect from the cheaper lead, than having to use the costly bismuth. Let me know what you think.

#34 Mumbles

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 01:29 PM

justthininabouti, out of curiosity are you actually binding these mixtures into granules or burning them as powders? It isn't entirely clear.
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#35 justhininabouti

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 04:01 PM

justthininabouti, out of curiosity are you actually binding these mixtures into granules or burning them as powders? It isn't entirely clear.



Sorry about that. I have been binding them with alcohol as the solvent.

#36 warthog

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:33 PM

Justin, I would but right now the weather is all over the place here. One day it is nice and sunny and 60°F outside and the next day it is snowing or worse, freezing rain like it is now. Until Spring I am not really up for doing much at all except reading and now and then some work on my lance colors and burn rates. I am more than game to join in the experimentation when the season changes though. ;)

Edited by warthog, 25 January 2012 - 06:34 PM.

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If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Romans 10:9-10).

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#37 justhininabouti

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 06:43 PM

Justin, I would but right now the weather is all over the place here. One day it is nice and sunny and 60F outside and the next day it is snowing or worse, freezing rain like it is now. Until Spring I am not really up for doing much at all except reading and now and then some work on my lance colors and burn rates. I am more than game to join in the experimentation when the season changes though. ;)


I sure understand the weather thing. It's been similar here too. I'm working on some comets right now, But I'll get back to to the DE in a few days. Once I get some results, I'll start an new thread.

#38 usapyro

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 01:12 AM

If they burn without cracking lower the oxidizer and MgAl amount. If they fail to smoulder go back one step. Lower the MgAl amount and don't change the oxidizer.

Sounds like your MgAl is more reactive than mine for some reason... So just lower the amount you use by 1/3rd and test again... Then if it works... Fine tune! If you have a working formula for a certain mesh MgAl post it. Bismuth dragon eggs are easy to fine tune once you get a feel for it. The issue is that different batches of MgAl can have different amounts of Al vs Mg, and mesh sizes may be more to a higher or lower range than labeled... Some may contain more reactive dust, and some may have been milled differently changing the reactivity. Etc... The only way to get perfect consistency is to alloy and grind the Mg and Al yourself.

The ratio of CuO to Bismuth Trioxide is unimportant in my experience. My dragon eggs work all the way from 15% bismuth to 50% and probably higher. (Only tested to there.) Best sound is with a decent amount of bismuth though. You can lower and raise the amount of bismuth and change the CuO accordingly and the composition still performs the same within a HUGE range.

Just follow these two rules and your good for tuning...
1. If it burns use less MgAl.
2. If it doesn't stay lit with a torch ignition use more MgAl.

If both of those rules fail... Change the amount of KClO4 and test over. I highly doubt those rules will fail you with bismuth and my main formula. When you shift the MgAl ratio up and down change CuO accordingly.

The KCLO4 oxidizer assists smoulder. It will prevent the crackling of dragon eggs in amounts over 7g and lead them straight to burn in my experience. Keep it in the 2-6g range. 3% is a good level to keep it at through the testing stage. It will assist smoulder and not cause any issues at that amount.

Edited by usapyro, 30 January 2012 - 01:32 AM.

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#39 NAC

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:51 AM

I've been mixing up different DE formulas for a while now. I can't seem to get it right.
I'm at work now so I don't remember the comp I used off hand- but I have to really heat'em up before they glow, and maybe pop-
when they do pop, it's a beautiful thing, really loud. I've tried rolling them as a star core but only maybe 5% of the eggs will pop as a star.
I also packed them in a fountain, but only got maybe 3 or 4 to pop. Tricky little buggers for sure!

They are about the size of a mouse turd- maybe I need to make them larger... I'll post the comp later when I get home this afternoon.

can't wait to get home- my order of star molecule is arriving today :D
If you think playing with salts is fun... you should try acids!

#40 NAC

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:07 AM

the comp I'm using is:

bismith subcarbonate 75g
magnalium 200 mesh 15g
copper II oxide 10g
n.laquer 10%

the eggs are maybe 2-4 mm in size.

very hard to light even with a primer.

real loud pop when they do light.

Edited by NAC, 23 June 2012 - 05:08 AM.

If you think playing with salts is fun... you should try acids!




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