usapyro Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I bought some green dot smokeless powder today and need to make some NC Lacquer to coat my non-NC dragon eggs for use as star cores. This is going to be fun... Time to make some overly-drossy glitter with added +TI and a crackle core... Bursting Ti glitter stars!!! Woo... What ratio's by weight do I mix them together for a good coating? I want to double dip to insure the cores are fully sealed from water or nitrates. All tips welcome. Edit: Also, does this stuff go bad or settle over time? Edited June 4, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I bought some green dot smokeless powder today and need to make some NC Lacquer to coat my non-NC dragon eggs for use as star cores. This is going to be fun... Time to make some overly-drossy glitter with added +TI and a crackle core... Bursting Ti glitter stars!!! Woo... What ratio's by weight do I mix them together for a good coating? I want to double dip to insure the cores are fully sealed from water or nitrates. All tips welcome. 10% is what you will need by weight. 100 grams of single base powder to 1000 grams of acetone. (Mum, whats the correct math on this?) Edit: Also, does this stuff go bad or settle over time? Yes and no. The NC will stay suspended in the acetone but the graphite will start to fall over time. Yes, it can "go bad" over time. When you make it, it should smell fresh. If it starts to "go bad", the smell will change some. I have a 16oz bottle of single base 40% NCL that I have stored for three years and it is still as fresh as the day I made it so I wouldn't worry too much. Personally, I dont like the performance of the single base NCL as much as I do the "powdered" form from Firefox and at $11.75 a pound, you cant go wrong. -dag Edited June 4, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 As long as you keep it out of the light it usually lasts pretty much indefinitely. You may need to thin it back out over time, but that is about it. Typically people prepare it as a 10% solution, so 10g/100mL. Some people go the extra yard as dissolve it in about 90mL, and top off with acetone to a full 100mL. I don't think it's that critical though. That said, it will be impossible to spray. For spraying I dilute it down to about 2%. I think it's easier to keep a stock solution around, and dilute as needed. If you want to bind stars, strobes, etc with the NC, you'll want it at full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 As long as you keep it out of the light it usually lasts pretty much indefinitely. You may need to thin it back out over time, but that is about it. Typically people prepare it as a 10% solution, so 10g/100mL. Some people go the extra yard as dissolve it in about 90mL, and top off with acetone to a full 100mL. I don't think it's that critical though. That said, it will be impossible to spray. For spraying I dilute it down to about 2%. I think it's easier to keep a stock solution around, and dilute as needed. If you want to bind stars, strobes, etc with the NC, you'll want it at full strength. Thanks Mum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) Edit: Ah whoops, misread what you said. Thought you were giving me NC dragons eggs instructions. Graphite will start to fall? So I just shouldn't use the very bottom of the bottle I guess. Performance problems... Hum, wouldn't a little perchlorate or something mixed in get it up to par? Well, with what I am using it for I don't need anything more than a barrier that burns away fast, but just saying. 10% is what you will need by weight. 100 grams of single base powder to 1000 grams of acetone. (Mum, whats the correct math on this?) Yes and no. The NC will stay suspended in the acetone but the graphite will start to fall over time. Yes, it can "go bad" over time. When you make it, it should smell fresh. If it starts to "go bad", the smell will change some. I have a 16oz bottle of single base 40% NCL that I have stored for three years and it is still as fresh as the day I made it so I wouldn't worry too much. Personally, I dont like the performance of the single base NCL as much as I do the "powdered" form from Firefox and at $11.75 a pound, you cant go wrong. -dag Edited June 4, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Edit: Ah whoops, misread what you said. Thought you were giving me NC dragons eggs instructions. Graphite will start to fall? So I just shouldn't use the very bottom of the bottle I guess. Performance problems... Hum, wouldn't a little perchlorate or something mixed in get it up to par? Well, with what I am using it for I don't need anything more than a barrier that burns away fast, but just saying. I dont know a thing about DE but I have made more NCL then I care to think about The amount of graphite is nothing to worry about and a quick shake of the container gets it all mixed up. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Been playing around with this spray bottle of 3% NC Lacquer solution... This is some NIFTY stuff. You can roll and prime your stars with it and not bother with adding binder to your different primes. Does anyone know if it has any altering effect on glitter? Thinking of rolling some glitter stars with this stuff. Heck, I'm just gonna do it... Will tell you if it messes up the glitter. Edited June 5, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Mike Swisher says that the glitter effect is destroyed by binders other then wheat paste, it would be interesting to see if the NCL worked or not since I dont think that was covered by him. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Mike Swisher says that the glitter effect is destroyed by binders other then wheat paste, it would be interesting to see if the NCL worked or not since I dont think that was covered by him. -dag Destroyed by binders other than wheat paste??? Uh... Dextrin is not wheat paste... It's corn starch. It doesn't destroy the effect as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Destroyed by binders other than wheat paste??? Uh... Dextrin is not wheat paste... It's corn starch. It doesn't destroy the effect as far as I know. Yes, dextrine is a binder and is not wheat paste. Over on Passfire, Mike just wrote last week that dextrine does in fact ruin the effect. I have no idea if it is true but I have no reason to doubt that he is correct. The conversation came up after a member had mentioned that he had 102 and 105 Al flake and wanted to get a comp for making great glitter. Mike named chapter and verse and others chimed in as well. I would think that to do a proper job experimenting, you should try both ways and see in real life what they do differently. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Dagabu, I can't find anything resembling what you're describing on passfire. He mentioned once that he felt that Dextrin gave inferior results for firefly, but that is about as close as I found. There are no mentions about other binders at all. Firefly and glitter are two different animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) It was Lee's question just posed last week to Mike. Look there. Ned asked about fireflies, I stand corrected. -dag Edited June 7, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 It was Lee's question just posed last week to Mike. Look there. Ned asked about fireflies, I stand corrected. -dag I think you need to be making more glitter... It's fun stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have this 102 and 105 stamped aluminum, its square and rectangular cut, I'm told that this is the stuff to use. Only problem... time. Show season has started, tooling orders, the kids and wife. I thought pyro was supposed to be relaxing? -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have this 102 and 105 stamped aluminum, its square and rectangular cut, I'm told that this is the stuff to use. Only problem... time. Show season has started, tooling orders, the kids and wife. I thought pyro was supposed to be relaxing? -dag same stuff, similar problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I have this 102 and 105 stamped aluminum, its square and rectangular cut, I'm told that this is the stuff to use. Only problem... time. Show season has started, tooling orders, the kids and wife. I thought pyro was supposed to be relaxing? -dag Are you sure you have K-102 and K-105? 105 is the finer "mixed firefly" that skylighter sells. I had thought you were using Steve M.'s comet blend, which Lee set up a buy for last fall. It's a 50:50 mix of 101 and 102. The mixed firefly always seemed too fine for how it was described by Mike Swisher and other resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Are you sure you have K-102 and K-105? 105 is the finer "mixed firefly" that skylighter sells. I had thought you were using Steve M.'s comet blend, which Lee set up a buy for last fall. It's a 50:50 mix of 101 and 102. The mixed firefly always seemed too fine for how it was described by Mike Swisher and other resources. Jese-Louise! Twice in the same day! I should stop posting at work altogether Yes, Lee's 101 & 102 but bagged separately. Sheesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Guys I am having some trouble trying to get a "sealed" coating on round stars with this stuff... First I tried the screen and dip method with the 10% and that worked crappily... Maybe after five dips it would get a decent coat, but long before then my screen would seal up with half dry NC Lacquer... Hmmm... Maybe I should just toss them in the star roller and keep spraying them with the 3% and letting them roll dry? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Guys I am having some trouble trying to get a "sealed" coating on round stars with this stuff... First I tried the screen and dip method with the 10% and that worked crappily... Maybe after five dips it would get a decent coat, but long before then my screen would seal up with half dry NC Lacquer... Hmmm... Maybe I should just toss them in the star roller and keep spraying them with the 3% and letting them roll dry? Any ideas? What do you mean? Sealed coat? -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 What do you mean? Sealed coat? -dag I need to perfectly water seal some crackling stars from nitrate intrusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I need to perfectly water seal some crackling stars from nitrate intrusion. But wont you "fire seal" them too? -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 mist them with a P. dichromate solution before priming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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