usapyro Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) This is the strangest thing ever... I was milling some kind of moist charcoal(I think that is what happened... First time milling willow charcoal.) and it stuck to one end so my ball mill was going for like five hours with the lead media just hitting itself. I run the charcoal through a strainer and I discover like two dozen of what appear to be lead BB's... 2-3mm... The hell? How is that even possible... You would think any lead that broke off would just turn to dust... Yet it formed itself into BB's??? Edit: I have one other theory... Got enough bloody shotguns going off around this place... Possibly the willow trees I cut down were shot before... (Wait, nvm... Scratch that... I ran the charcoal through a blender first...) Edited May 28, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechovski Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I would love a picture , i guess your not using hardened lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMax Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 It probably did come off as dust and then the lead dust compacted into larger particles. That would be my guess anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 if your media had pieces breaking off they could easily be rounded by the rotation and the other media hitting against the jar walls however i wouldn't expect them to be the same size if theyr'e randomly breaking off, are they uniform size and weight? the shotgun theory appeals to me if they are the same size and weight depending how hot you got the charcoal while cooking [pyrolosis 550-lead melting 671] they could have survived that [if they even are lead] they could also survive being blended unless you got a v8, i think the lead would either sink to the bottom under the blades left untouched or stay above them in the vortex being hit occaisionaly, this should leave marks that the milling may have straightened out. if it was lead "dust" that had gathered and formed balls i would expect it to have a high percentage of charcoal and be darker when cleaned than the rest of your media. ive seen deformations like bells or peanuts and the odd stray small ball but never bb'sweigh themshow us a pictureburn one next to your ok media and look for charcoal sparks in the bb'sdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 I'm going to ball mill another batch of charcoal tomorrow from the same piece of wood... Will tell you guys what happens! Also, I will try to fish some of the bb's out of the trash bin and see what happens to them under a torch. They are assorted sized BB's... I don't know if they contain any charcoal because they feel as heavy as lead and make a clinking noise when dropped on wood even. I was getting a bit worried that I was going to destroy my ball mill media totally if I accidentally let it run overnight dry... I don't upload many video's because I am 20 miles out in the middle of nowhere on 56k. It's great for guns and fireworks but the internet kinda sucks... Should get into town tomorrow for a mass upload... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 AmericanPyroSupply lead media and ball mill.http://www.americanpyrosupply.com/Products-BALL_MILLS_MEDIA.html Says hardened lead, but I got them a year and a half ago so the coating might have worn off? They sure don't look hardened... Look rather dusty... I would love a picture , i guess your not using hardened lead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 AmericanPyroSupply lead media and ball mill.http://www.americanp...ILLS_MEDIA.html Says hardened lead, but I got them a year and a half ago so the coating might have worn off? They sure don't look hardened... Look rather dusty... from what i know hardening isnt just a coating, its melted with the lead and i think its antimony it looks like alu silvery not dark it will appear dusty after some use like un hardened lead sulfur eats into the lead and it does powder off on its own but shouldnt break up like youve seen your jar maybe undercharged with media allowing the lead to fall from a good enough height to disrtort it, dont worry about losing all your media just colect the bits melt them and cast it in copper pipe sections i like heavy cylindrical media.dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 28, 2011 Author Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Sigh... Just checked my black powder I was milling overnight... My ball mill bred a whole new batch of BB's... The way they are shaped it kind of looks like some of the lead balls are intermittently shattering... Some are round, some are half circles... Others are more like slightly rounded stream rock shape... :/ Edited May 28, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Sigh... Just checked my black powder I was milling overnight... My ball mill bred a whole new batch of BB's... The way they are shaped it kind of looks like some of the lead balls are intermittently shattering... Some are round, some are half circles... Others are more like slightly rounded stream rock shape... :/ It really sounds like its 100% antimony and not lead at all. Even with heat treating, it should never shatter. Give a ball the hammer test, if it shatters, you may have 100% antimony balls. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'm going to have to get a bigger ball mill and new media soon anyway... Can't seem to find any used washing machine type motors anywhere to build my own. Hmmm... These ones from pyrodirect look pretty nice... Maybe ill get one in a couple months when they are in stock again.http://www.pyrocreations.com/ball_mills___media These ones look amazing, but $700 for a 12 lb ball mill? Omfg...http://www.pyrosupplies.com/shop/page/category/Category/e89a68d39505a5d66498b42b43075aaf.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) It really sounds like its 100% antimony and not lead at all. Even with heat treating, it should never shatter. Give a ball the hammer test, if it shatters, you may have 100% antimony balls. -dag Pounded on one... Nope, no shatter. Ball mill still breeding BB's like mad... Just to double check... I am going to blend and screen a bunch of that charcoal tomorrow. I don't see how it's possible to create 20 or so little BB's in an hour of ball milling... This never use to happen! (Wait a minute, that last batch was pine from pine boards, not willow... Gah... My stupid lead balls really are disintegrating...) Edited May 30, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan999ification Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 looks like you have got to get or make some more media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 So nobody has had this happen before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 My linkI'm going to have to get a bigger ball mill and new media soon anyway... Can't seem to find any used washing machine type motors anywhere to build my own. Hmmm... These ones from pyrodirect look pretty nice... Maybe ill get one in a couple months when they are in stock again.http://www.pyrocreat...l_mills___media These ones look amazing, but $700 for a 12 lb ball mill? Omfg...http://www.pyrosuppl...2b43075aaf.html I have one of these in the 12# size. Sorry but after using a rock tumbler and then using a PVC jar, I will never go back to a rubber barrel. LINK -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I've potentially had this happen before, though not to the extent you are. I've gotten a couple here or there. It's hard to tell if it's from the wood itself (lead shot embedded) or breaking off and rounding of my media. As a control, you could try milling just potassium nitrate or something to see if it's still happening. You may want to try to keep an eye on the mill to prevent it from running without any powder in there. It's not good for the media, as I am sure you're finding out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I use fishing sinkers for media,I milled the media by themselves to harden them for about 24-36hrs they've lasted over a year with no deformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usapyro Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) I just solved most of it... *Slaps forehead.* I discovered that some of the KNO3 pellets I was processing through the blender didn't get blended... And were also impervious to lead balls breaking them up... They looked hard and silvery, but that was just the charcoal on them... :/ I tossed one onto a chip of wood and heated it up and it turned clear, then turned into a glowing glob burning it's way through the wood. So that would explain what was up with my black powder creating zillions of odd shaped BB's. Now what would explain the silvery BB's in the charcoal... I melted one of those and remember it just stayed silvery looking. (Could have just been clear, not silvery like lead.) Dunno about that one yet. I figure some KNO3 Pellets must have gotten stuck in my media between bp/charcoal batches. Btw, when I need charcoal for KClO3 comps what I do is ball mill some hot water, then run one batch of plain charcoal through my ballmill to be later used for black powder... Then start milling the charcoal to be used for KClO3 comps (H3, Willow... Etc). That safe enough? A hundred or so parts per million of sulfur getting into chlorate comps shouldn't be a problem IMO. Edited June 1, 2011 by usapyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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