Vrizla Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Hey Guy's I haven't posted in a while, I went back to school and I'm getting a late start this year. I was wondering everyone's onion on the best string for black match. I just came home from Michale's and I ended up getting Royale Fashion Crochet Thread. It's 100% Mercerized Cotton 3.5 mm. It was the only string I could find that was 100% cotton and was not bleached. Should I return it and buy something else? I read a post by Swede he said he loves peaches and cream. I think I saw that but it was colored and thick. I was planning on twisting it together while pulling it out of the machine and also trying to use 5 thin pieces for quick match. I had an idea of how to construct a black match maker that wouldn't waste much material. It would use the standard funnel set up but have 2 straws or tubes possible eye hooks. One to pull it down towards the bottom of the funnel and another to lead it up then out a hole in the top side. I'm not sure if I will end up making it that way I was thinking it may pull off too much slurry. Also what is the best paper to use for quick match. They had craft paper, but I was looking for craft tape I figured it would be easier so I could avoid cutting. Any input on the type of string I bought, best paper to wrap quick match. if I should get something else and if any one has a link to tried and tested machine would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to have a synchronized display this year with a musical theme, so I really need things to fire instantly. My goal is to eventually have fire controlled by a computer, but this year I would be happy if I make kick ass quick match and make a reliable ignition system because last year mine crapped out on me and I didn't bring ear plugs because I was planning on being far away. Definitely not going to make that mistake again!!! Luckily I never do anything pyro related with out having several pairs of eye and hand protection on me. I had a couple of low breaks and a flower pot. There was even a consumer cake that shot 4 shells out the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 HOLY COW!! Thats a lot to digest in one post so lets go slow and take one item at a time. The reason Swede, myself and lots of others use Peaches and Cream or Sugar and Cream yarn is because it is open and extremely porous. Crochet thread makes fine cross match and is useable in making a flat multi-strand black match but has a problem absorbing the slurry all the way to the core. I understand your idea for making a machine to pull match through and I have made a few of them, each does a better job then the last but for our purposes, soaking a hank of yarn in a slurry and then pulling it on to a rack is fast and easy. There is no way to get the slurry to the core with a machine, I have tried and tried and if you look at last weeks postings, I was called a string whore for a reason, I have at last count around 50 different strings that I have pulled black match with and have learned the good, the bad and the ugly about making black match. "Colored" yarn makes no difference in burn, ash content or speed, none. Grab what you can find but make sure it is 100% cotton if you want it to be biodegradable. Yes, use kraft paper, 30# is about as thick as you can really go or it will tear when folded. Poly coated kraft is a terrific outer wrap but can be tough to glue shut, lots of people here have used kraft packing tape with great success but it is not water resistant. More later... -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) Awesome Dagabu, Thank You for all the suggestions, I know I posted so many topic all at once, sorry about and there must be ton's of posts on here about black match, cause almost everyone uses it. I never had much luck with search feature on this site and I looked in download and formula database. Right after I posted it I thought about just soaking string in slurry I think that's what I'm going to do, it just makes sense. Should I stick with something in the 1/8 " range for black match and quick match and is the paper Dagabu listed available in most craft stores. I live in the sticks so they don't have a big selection where I'm at, l know I can order in online but I'm in a mad dash to prep. Basically what I'm trying to accomplish is to have super fast burning quick match for electric ignition. Edited May 24, 2011 by Vrizla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 DA, I'd also like to know more about the string. I'm about to pull a BUNCH of blackmatch and I might as well use the best stuff. What I currently have is This stuff. It says cotton on the website but if you look on the inside of the spool it says cotton poly blend. When you burn it, it burns with a very orange flame and a tiny amount of black soot. It doesn't melt or behave like a plastic, and when you blow it out, it will keep a glowing ember on the end like an organic string would. So I know it has a small amount of plastic in it because of the soot and because it says it does but I have a feeling its mostly cotton. What are the negatives to using a blended string like I have? I haven't looked looked at the peaches and cream yet but I'm assuming its quite fuzzy like normal knitting yarn? Lastly, you mention crochet thread for crossmatching. Is this different than the knitting yarn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) The crochet thread is what I bought. It's Royale Fashion crochet Thread 100% Mercicerized cotton 3.5 mm. I can't believe they sent you poly blend and advertised it as 100% cotton. Also it looks kinda thick, I have never made it before, but I was under the impression for fast quick match you want to use 5 thin strands of black match. That's what I want to accomplish. I was thinking about using a thicker string to make black match to use as a leader to put on the end of quick match and for passing fire on racks not as fast a quick match. Edited May 24, 2011 by Vrizla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 DA, I'd also like to know more about the string. I'm about to pull a BUNCH of blackmatch and I might as well use the best stuff. What I currently have is This stuff. It says cotton on the website but if you look on the inside of the spool it says cotton poly blend. When you burn it, it burns with a very orange flame and a tiny amount of black soot. It doesn't melt or behave like a plastic, and when you blow it out, it will keep a glowing ember on the end like an organic string would. So I know it has a small amount of plastic in it because of the soot and because it says it does but I have a feeling its mostly cotton. What are the negatives to using a blended string like I have? I haven't looked looked at the peaches and cream yet but I'm assuming its quite fuzzy like normal knitting yarn? Lastly, you mention crochet thread for crossmatching. Is this different than the knitting yarn? It is sold by many as 100% cotton and in a 6300' spool. Its actually polly/cotton and 5670' on the spool. This is the same string that is pulled for single strand commercial blackmatch here in my home state. The core of the BM is white, no slurry gets deep into the core. I have used this string for many things and works well for BM as long as you work the slurry into the string. I dont know of any negatives using polly/cotton string as long as the polly percentage is small enough to not melt but burn. Anyone that has used this string, please speak up, it would be good to hear from others on this topic as well. Yes, peaches and cream is fuzzy but it isn't fuzzy after being pulled through a die. Does this look familiar? STRING http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2270.jpg http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2267.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hst45 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Try a thin all-cotton string called "carpet warp". I got this left over from my scandanavian grandparents who would cut strips of old sheets/curtains/garments and weave these horizontally between the longitudinal "carpet warp" to make throw rugs called "rag rugs." The string is super thin and takes the slurry well. When dried I take two stiff strands of this and fold two into a paper pipe for an excellent quickmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 What thickness do you want to use for the fastest quick match 1/16" ? Then use 5 strands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 It is sold by many as 100% cotton and in a 6300' spool. Its actually polly/cotton and 5670' on the spool. This is the same string that is pulled for single strand commercial blackmatch here in my home state. The core of the BM is white, no slurry gets deep into the core. I have used this string for many things and works well for BM as long as you work the slurry into the string. I dont know of any negatives using polly/cotton string as long as the polly percentage is small enough to not melt but burn. Anyone that has used this string, please speak up, it would be good to hear from others on this topic as well. Yes, peaches and cream is fuzzy but it isn't fuzzy after being pulled through a die. Does this look familiar? STRING http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2270.jpg http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2267.jpg Yeah thats the stuff.. I was planning on either: 1. doing what most people do which is get myself a hank and kneed the BP into the string for a period of time before pulling through a die. OR2. what NED Gorski suggested is spool out however many feet and untwist the 8 strands with my power drill. Then pull all of the strands through the slurry and die. I think Ill try a large portion of this batch with method #1, then I'll try 20 or so feet with the strands untwisted to see if that improves my match. Do you really think its necessary to have 5 pieces of match in the pipe? I'd like to get away with just two. I do think my match pipe is a bit smaller than the commercial stuff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The crochet thread is what I bought. It's Royale Fashion crochet Thread 100% Mercicerized cotton 3.5 mm. I can't believe they sent you poly blend and advertised it as 100% cotton. Also it looks kinda thick, I have never made it before, but I was under the impression for fast quick match you want to use 5 thin strands of black match. That's what I want to accomplish. I was thinking about using a thicker string to make black match to use as a leader to put on the end of quick match and for passing fire on racks not as fast a quick match. The 5 thin strand black match you are speaking about is the yellow commercial stuff now being sold in Pyro Formax's place and is a beatch to make yourself. It has a lot of surface area and that is what makes it faster then a single strand of match in a tube. The first two pics are my 6 strand black match, hand made and covered with meal-D. http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2280.jpg http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_2281.jpg This pic is a close up of the actual strands of cotton laid side by side and completely impregnated with BP slurry. The contrast has been altered in order to show you the strands. http://www.pyrobin.com/files/dsc_0335.jpg http://www.pyrobin.com/files/dsc_0315.jpg -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yeah thats the stuff.. I was planning on either: 1. doing what most people do which is get myself a hank and kneed the BP into the string for a period of time before pulling through a die. OR2. what NED Gorski suggested is spool out however many feet and untwist the 8 strands with my power drill. Then pull all of the strands through the slurry and die. I think Ill try a large portion of this batch with method #1, then I'll try 20 or so feet with the strands untwisted to see if that improves my match. Do you really think its necessary to have 5 pieces of match in the pipe? I'd like to get away with just two. I do think my match pipe is a bit smaller than the commercial stuff though. If all you are looking to accomplish is to pass fire from piece to piece then no, you only need two strands and even then, the second strand is more for assurance then performance. To make super fast BM, you need lots of surface area. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes, Its really just for chaining shells, shell leaders, cakes and the like. Two strand should be fine? Also, What other reasons would I need 5 strand quickmatch for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yes, Its really just for chaining shells, shell leaders, cakes and the like. Two strand should be fine? Also, What other reasons would I need 5 strand quickmatch for? Timed Inserts!! http://www.pyrobin.com/files/100_0190.jpg -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepOvertone Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Ah yes, I've seen them being "matched" that way. But why couldn't this be accomplished with NC and BP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Wow dag, that is some serious looking quickmatch!! What kind of fuse do you use to fire your shells? I have only made a few dozen shells and rockets I always used store bought white lightning to ignite lift charge in shells. Every display shell I have ever bought has had quick match. Edited May 25, 2011 by Vrizla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Here is a You Tube Video From Michigan Pyrotechnic Arts Guild. This is the type of quickmatch I want to make. It's at the end of the video. They make some really nice shells!! Edited May 25, 2011 by Vrizla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Here is a You Tube Video From Michigan Pyrotechnic Arts Guild. This is the type of quickmatch I want to make. It's at the end of the video. They make some really nice shells!! NHIL posted that one. Was this the quick match you were referring too? http://www.pyrobin.com/files/mpag%20shell%202011.jpg Its commercial stuff, its the PyroFormax replacement. -dag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Yea that's exactly what I'm trying to replicate. I'm on a tight budget this year, I need to buy more HDPE tubes and various other supplies. I don't think you can even ship quickmatch, most places I have looked don't maybe it's just because you need to have your batf 54 licence to purchase it. I went back to Michaels and returned what I bought yesterday, then I had to go to Walmart for something and what do you know I found a giant spool of Sugar' N Cream. I still can't find #30 craft paper or the poly coated one. There was poly coated poster board but it was kind of expensive. I think what I have is #60 so I figure I can just double it up. I couldn't even find craft tape anywhere. I was looking at this spool of tape and I was thinking about getting it to seal paper shell's in place of fiberglass tape but I thought I should check with the experts first. Today is a perfect day to make it, nice and sunny out. I'm going to try using 4 or 5 strands, one just wrapped in paper and another sealed with some sort of tape. As soon as I get some extra money I'm putting in a few orders. Has anyone successfully replicated commercial quickmatch? Here's what I got today and the tape I was thinking about getting: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) Yea that's exactly what I'm trying to replicate. I'm on a tight budget this year, I need to buy more HDPE tubes and various other supplies. I don't think you can even ship quickmatch, most places I have looked don't maybe it's just because you need to have your batf 54 licence to purchase it. That is one of life's more interesting issues, quick match does not require a license (all "types" like the 54 are gone now, you can get a users, limited, manufacturers etc.) to purchase according to the BATFE but a lot of re-sellers require one to sell it to you. At PGI, it is sold in the C-sales tent and as long as you are 21 or older, its a cash deal. I went back to Michaels and returned what I bought yesterday, then I had to go to Walmart for something and what do you know I found a giant spool of Sugar' N Cream. You should have bought two! I still can't find #30 craft paper or the poly coated one. There was poly coated poster board but it was kind of expensive. I think what I have is #60 so I figure I can just double it up. Look for white butchers paper, it is ofter polly coated instead of wax. It will say so right on the cover and runs about $2.00 a 100' roll. I couldn't even find craft tape anywhere. I was looking at this spool of tape and I was thinking about getting it to seal paper shell's in place of fiberglass tape but I thought I should check with the experts first. WallMart, K-Mart, packaging stores, office stores will all have kraft paper tape, water activated. If you cant find it, I have a case of 60# gummed 2" x 600' that I will sell for $4.00 a roll. Today is a perfect day to make it, nice and sunny out. I'm going to try using 4 or 5 strands, one just wrapped in paper and another sealed with some sort of tape. As soon as I get some extra money I'm putting in a few orders. Has anyone successfully replicated commercial quickmatch? Here's what I got today and the tape I was thinking about getting: With the larger yarn you have, you will want to stay with two strands, more then that is a waste of money and you will not get a boost in performance nor will it be faster. Commercial black match? Didn't I just post my 6 strand flat match? -dag Edited May 25, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 I know it's crazy that none of the stores around me have gummed craft paper. Everywhere I went people looked at me like I had 3 heads when I asked for it. Most likely I will order some next week, but if my favorite suppliers happen to be sold out I will definitely take you up on that offer, thank you very much for that and all your guidance. I should have came here first instead of looking around at other forums and You Tube video's. This place by far has the most knowledgeable and safety conscious people I have come across of. I did see your 6 string flat match covered in meal, that's one mean looking match!!! Later this week I'm going to try that approach to pass fire down a rack. Right now I'm going to mass produce match to light single shells. Those are some really nice looking inserts too, I'm not quite at your skill level, plus I have minimal storage. I'll let you guys know how my match turns out. I hope I have time to build a decent ignition system, I don't want to get stuck ordering another junker!! Thanks Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 You are looking for this: LINKhttp://www.uline.com/images/en-US/transparent.gif This: LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrizla Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Forgot to re-post the fist batch of black match I made quick match out of was awesome, really fast. I hope the new black powder I made performs as well in match pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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