toster Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 So, being a avid shooter/reloader along with pyro the melting of my two hobbies are starting in my head. I see on firefox's pages they sell some tubes for reloading 12gu signals and bangs. My questions is does anyone have instructions on building and constructing these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 So, being a avid shooter/reloader along with pyro the melting of my two hobbies are starting in my head. I see on firefox's pages they sell some tubes for reloading 12gu signals and bangs. My questions is does anyone have instructions on building and constructing these?The obvious issue... when a mortar messes up...you get cardboard everywhere. When a 12Ga has a "hang fire" or a "flowerpot" you get steel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 you could probably fill a shotgun barrel all the way to muzzle with b.p and it still wouldn't blow up,I have some homemade 12g flares that I bought from a gun show,I pulled one apart and it's just a round star on about 15 grains of commercial b.p with a bit of sponge holding everything down under a roll crimp,homemade bird bangers or birdfrite would require careful attention I wouldn't try them,you won't blow up your shotty with b.p and flares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I know very very little about guns so take that into consideration before acting upon my advice From what I know inside a gun there are much much higher pressures than what we would experience in a martar if this is the case it is important to know that many pyrotechnic compositions (particularly perchlorate compositions) burn much much faster under higher pressures and star compositions may causes serious explotions (I would avoid chlorates and perchlorates and metallic fuels) also wouldnt the slag produced posibly cause issues ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrokid Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 There are a lot of things to consider with this. Jimbo had a good point- Flares shouldn't be so difficult to accomplish. You DO need to be careful with the noise effects though, I have a feeling you would be in trouble if one of those went off in the barrel. Another point of consideration would be the possible fouling effects of Black powder on the gun's internal workings. If you were to use smokeless, that would eliminate the fouling, but then you would have to deal with passfire to the flare, which would take some tuning. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hst45 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I've seen 12 gauge "bird bombs" at gunshops. They look like a fused cardboard tube crimped inside a shotshell, but I've never shot one so I can't tell you what the report compound might be. Personally, I don't have the stones to load "vitamin F" into a shell going inside a steel barrel, but a tightly sealed BP report would probably be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 I suppose fouling shouldn't be a problem in break action shotguns,b.p gums up slide action shotguns and would render inoperable gas operated semi's,I cut the 18mm star out of the flare in half,its seems like a bright flake aluminium green composition too silvery for mg/al I burnt the other half and its not as brilliant as a mg/al green,also firefox seems to sell the components for birdbangers so people do make them,I had a look at birdfrite pdf a while back and I'm sure the report comp is perchlorate/aluminium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolic Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Toster, as fellow shooter and handloader my self, also, I would suggest using smokeless shotgun powder just as if you were reloading shotshells but instead of inserting a plastic wad, either use a plastic wad with the petals cut off or use a fiber wad. if your device will fit inside the wad with petals then I guess leave the petals on. Before pushing the fiber wad or plastic wad into and on top of the smokless, drill a hole through the center of the wad so that a fuse from your device can go through into the smokless charge.the wad is needed to cushion the device and build pressure. It would be advisable to look up different loads to see what powder charges with smokless to use. a lee load all would be good to put the star crimp back onto the finished shell if using recycled shells that already have the star crimp. If your using new hulls then a roll crimp is probably better. The charges in shotshells are all based mainly on the weight of lead shot. so I guess you can weigh your pyro device that is to be shot out of the shell and get an idea of what amount of charge to use. a normal lead shot charge for 12g is around 28gram to 36gram. shotgun reloading books will give you endless recomended charges for different powders and different shot charges. give me a shout if your needing any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackthumb Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Back in the 60's, I got my hands on about a dozen "Bird Bombs" in 12 ga. Needless to say I had to duplicate them as 12 only lasted a short while. That was in the days before my brain reached full size. Of course, I used flash in M80 casings. Used smokless powder and pushed a piece of visco thru a overpowder card wad. They worked well...only had one go off in the barrel.....loud as (*&&^%$$ but no damage...guess I was lucky.I would build them again but use BP to be a bit more safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toster Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 That is exactly what I was thinking. I have some 9/16 and 5/8 tubes, I was going to putsome comp in them and a short piece of visco angle cut through a cardboard wad. I didn’t know if with smokeless I could getthe visco to light, and how long it should be. I was thinking I would just make the visco go right up by the primer,and then it would have to burn the length of the end plug before going off. Start there, and work back I guess. BP, that would make quite a mess of the gun... I have seen a few "joker" loads made with bp when a friend needs a shell or two to finish a round of skeet or trap. BP and Confetti is kind of a fun joke round too but usually gets caught for being to light. Any ideas for flare comps, and how they should be loaded? My guess would be a single star in the cardboard tube, one end plugged with fuse and bp burst charge. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parabolic Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 That is exactly what I was thinking. I have some 9/16 and 5/8 tubes, I was going to putsome comp in them and a short piece of visco angle cut through a cardboard wad. I didn't know if with smokeless I could getthe visco to light, and how long it should be. I was thinking I would just make the visco go right up by the primer,and then it would have to burn the length of the end plug before going off. Start there, and work back I guess. BP, that would make quite a mess of the gun... I have seen a few "joker" loads made with bp when a friend needs a shell or two to finish a round of skeet or trap. BP and Confetti is kind of a fun joke round too but usually gets caught for being to light. Any ideas for flare comps, and how they should be loaded? My guess would be a single star in the cardboard tube, one end plugged with fuse and bp burst charge. ??? forget BP that will make too much mess in your nice shotgun. smokeless makes enough mess as it is already! the visco fuse as you said cut at an angle to expose as much powder as poss will be good, but I don't think you need to go and put it too much over the primer as you may block the primer flash to ignite the smokeless., why not experiment with devices filled with simple smoke mix kno3/sugar and see what works. the worst that can happen is that the fuse does not light and you see no smoke. try the fuse just poking through the wad into the powder, if it don't ignite the fuse then move it deeper towards the primer. I personaly would use Bickford time fuse. flare comps you can get from pyro database formulas, as for loading, do what I say and look up the load data for the weight of device as if it were lead shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I'd be careful using smokeless loads in these novelty type shells,specifically loading pressure not chamber pressure,loads are developed for specific primers,powders,shot weights even crimps,if there isn't enough loading pressure(if its the right term)the primer blast can blow the contents a short distance up the barrel before the charge is consumed leading to pressure irregularities or secondry explosive effect,maybe small loads of fast burning pistol powders might do,some powders can't be used with reduced loads and have to be loaded to the right density,just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) I'd be careful using smokeless loads in these novelty type shells,specifically loading pressure not chamber pressure,loads are developed for specific primers,powders,shot weights even crimps,if there isn't enough loading pressure(if its the right term)the primer blast can blow the contents a short distance up the barrel before the charge is consumed leading to pressure irregularities or secondry explosive effect,maybe small loads of fast burning pistol powders might do,some powders can't be used with reduced loads and have to be loaded to the right density,just a thought. This is what happens to rifles, shotguns are even more exciting. Edited May 24, 2011 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papabear3333 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi I'm new here. I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I would like to buy a bird scare device like a carbide cannon. Should I buy or make? Any advice would be welcome. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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