D1 Glitter

[Bonny]

Yes, I have around a dozen different Aluminum's, I dont know of any but MgAl that is an alloy,

 

D

 

I think I recall seeing some (old maybe?) formulae that called for Ferro-Al...might be wrong though.

[Mumbles]

Ferro-Al makes kind of a straw color. There is Titanium-Aluminum alloy too I do believe.

[Miech]

Indeed there is. And there is ferro-titanium which is yellowish white. The latter has been claimed to be unstable with water however, by means of spontaneous ignition, but I don't know wether that were specific circumstances or not.

[Bonny]

Indeed there is. And there is ferro-titanium which is yellowish white. The latter has been claimed to be unstable with water however, by means of spontaneous ignition, but I don't know wether that were specific circumstances or not.

 

I have some Fe-Ti and it is grey, not yellow or white.

[Mumbles]

I think he was talking (maybe) about the flame color. I can tell the difference between my Ti and FeTi by material color though. The FeTi is just darker with it's oxide coat.

 

All of the Ferro-XXX alloys are scraps from the steel industry. They use the premixed alloys to add trace metals to steel for easier alloying. The Ti-Al (if I am remembering right) is probably from the aircraft Titanium or alumimum industry analogously.

[Miech]

I was talking about flame color ideed.

[Updup]

I didn't expect it to work, so when I saw the awsome glittering fireball generated from the small pile of powder I almost fell on my arse laughing with delight like a looney.

 

Woohoo, I was like that too, I had to make it with 400 mesh AL but it worked fine, I was jumping around being strange for about ten minutes after i lit that first star.

[Updup]

What chem makes all the slag in this comp? Do you think I could modifiy this in to a more just silver star (mabye some glitter) without any extra chems? I've only got a week till show time so please reply ASAP

[Updup]

I hate to double post, but I have five days to male some stars... If you cab help please see my question above

[Mumbles]

It's the sodium bicarbonate that makes the slag, or at least part of it. If you replaced that with barium, strontium, or magnesium carbonate, you would get a white glitter with a pretty substantial glitter delay I would imagine depending on the carbonate. If you want more of a silver streamer with some glittering, I'd suggest an effect called Pearl streamers, or William's No-Antimony Glitter. Pearl streamers generally use Barium nitrate, which you may or may not have. It seems somewhat neccesary, but you'd still get a streamer or slight glitter if you just replace it with KNO3.

 

Williams No-Antimony Glitter

- 55 Potassium nitrate

- 17 Airfloat charcoal

- 7 Sulfur

- 4 Red iron oxide

- 10 Aluminum 12 micron spherical

- 3 Magnalium 100-200 mesh

- 4 Dextrin

 

Better Pearl

Source: Lloyd Scott Oglesby

 

Potassium Nitrate 47

Sulfur 18

Barium Nitrate 10

Charcoal Airfloat 10

Aluminum, atom, spher, 400 mesh, 14 micron 10

Dextrin 5

[gordohigh]

Of all the different star comps I've made over the last year I somehow missed making D1. I finally made some D1 stars the other night and was so pleased with them I made a small batch of 3/4 crossettes last night. Because these stars burn fairly fast I was wondering what you guys would recommend using for the burst charge. My crossette pump was made by me and there is about a quarter of an inch of burn time before it will reach my fuse channel, (the pointed end of the crossette pump), so I'm a little concerned about having it break too close to the ground if I were to just paste it with one end open and shoot these as a cake. I was looking at a method for this using 2 discs and a spacer in between for a cushion during the lift on one end of the crossette and the top would be open and primed. Is 1/4inch of composition enough? These were made with my hydraulic press and are quite dense but still, they burn fast compared to red/green mag/alu stars.

 

 

As for the actual comp, I had 120 mesh atomized alu and although that is considered coarse, it seems to work very well, at least from tests with a star gun. I was surprised that these will actually burn easily when they are first pressed and still damp. The only reason I tried them damp is because of an article by Ned on skylighter on D1 glitter that I found before I saw this thread.

[viziers]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead but it seems I made a batch of D1 to wet and now 3 days later they crumble in my fingers when I apply a bit of pressure on either cross sections... Now can I crumble it all and re-wet it with less w/a and repump them or is the Al shot now?

 

 

 

Thanks,

vizi

[dagabu]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead but it seems I made a batch of D1 to wet and now 3 days later they crumble in my fingers when I apply a bit of pressure on either cross sections... Now can I crumble it all and re-wet it with less w/a and repump them or is the Al shot now?

 

 

 

Thanks,

vizi

 

Its really hard to say if the Al is still good or not but the nose test is a good way to get an indication of the Al getting eaten up. Is there/was there a smell of ammonia? If so, it is reacting, if not, you may be fine. It really sounds like your binder failed and/or you didn't press them hard enough. The comp has to be in intimate contact to make the binder work well.

 

Did you use Dex or SRGS? Did you use enough? What pressure did you use to press them?

 

Yes, I would definitely crush them and try it again.

 

-dag

[viziers]

I did not recall smelling any ammonia,and They were not pressed to hard (2.5lb deadblow hammer) as they were too moist to press fully.. I used 25g of Dex.

 

 

 

Yea I think i'll crush and start over.. Can dex be wetted again and still be active?

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

vizi

[Mumbles]

If they were overwet to begin with they may just not be fully dry yet. Without some sort of force drying, I wouldn't necessarily expect normal pumped stars to be dry after 3 days anyway. I'm assuming these are 1/2" like your other batch of stars.

[viziers]

If they were overwet to begin with they may just not be fully dry yet. Without some sort of force drying, I wouldn't necessarily expect normal pumped stars to be dry after 3 days anyway. I'm assuming these are 1/2" like your other batch of stars.

 

 

 

Hey Mumbles, Yes they are the same 1/2"... I can certainly let them dry for a week or more if needed, i'll also set them in the sun for a while to help dry them some more before I comit to crushing them..

 

 

 

Thanks all,

vizi

[PyroAce]

I was going to make some D1 today, but then remembering about Aluminium reactions in the presence of Potassium Nitrate and water I was going to use Boric Acid to counter this but then remembered I don't have any left I decided not to make the D1. I just read what Mumbles was saying that because Sodium Bicarbonate is also in the D1 formula adding Boric Acid is counter intuitive. What are the risks of not adding Boric Acid? The whole Aluminium/Potassium Nitrate/Water and heating up/spontaneous combustion is one thing I still don't understand fully because some formulas such as Ralph's Glitter don't even stipulate Boric Acid, yet both Aluminium/Potassium Nitrate/Water are present in the formula. Does Aluminium mesh size play an important role in determining whether to use Boric Acid or not? And does the same reaction occur when using Aluminium/Barium Nitrate/Water?

[Seymour]

I suggest making D1 without Boric acid, and without a worry.

 

As you noted, many formulas quite simply (and I assure you not by mistake) simply ignore the (semi) incompatibility.

 

The reaction certainly does occur more readily with greater Aluminium surface area (as well as other factors such as coatings, and drying conditions). Glitter Aluminium tends to be rather coarse, so reactions are quite slow, and realistically with typical D1, your worst case situation is your stars reacting and not working once they're dry. Only with very fine flash grade Aluminium have I heard a case of the nitrate Al reaction being considered a candidate for an actual ignition. Other than that I've only seen hypothetical warnings about large batches (think 10kg) achieving ignition temperature if they're left in a bucket wet, and the mass is too great to dissipate the heat fast enough with the limited surface area.

 

Once the stars are made and are on a tray to dry, maximizing surface area for both effective drying, and head dissipation (in the case of a reaction) while reactions can occur, which I've had happen rather a few times, I really cannot see there being any possibility of ignition due to the reaction unless you do something stupid like drying them in a heated environment... which is where I get to my last bit of advice. The reaction rarely occurs spontaneously. It tends to occur either if you leave them wet for a long time, or if you try to roast them dry. Don't put the stars in the hot summer sun or in a heated drying chamber until they are half dry, if at all.

 

Avoid wetting them too much, and dry them in a cool, dry, ventilated place. If you get that tell tale mix of Ammonia and sulfur based smell, don't worry too much. Your stars are probably no longer going to glitter, but you can use them for helping light a bonfire one day after they are dry. Chuck them somewhere were the fumes are not going to give you a headache, and monitor them every now and then just in case.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Seymour

[PyroAce]

Thank you for the detailed reply Seymour, it's something I can cross off the "worry list", although I do acknowledge I still have to take precautions with the Aluminium/Potassium Nitrate/Water reactions.

Do you know if the same applies to Aluminium/Barium Nitrate/Strontium Nitrate/Water?

[Seymour]

I'm pretty sure they do, but I may be wrong.

 

I've had them react with Magnalium a bit (which reacts with nitrates similarly, but much more severely than Al), but never to the point that the stars were ruined. They just got a tad warm while drying, and smelled a bit like Ammonia.

 

Otherwise I've mixed Aluminium with Barium nitrate quite a lot and never noticed any reactions. Perhaps the reaction is less severe with Barium.

[BPgorilla]

just a add to the conversation I have D1 glitter stars for the first time about 1 week ago following roosters formula with excellent results. I I'm ball milled the composition and screened the aluminum in after, used a water/alcohol ratio of 75%/25% in a spray bottle, spraying 5-10 times and mixing well with gloves on( the trick is not to get it too wet you want it like the consistency of dark brown sugar that people put in their oatmeal) then get an old 3cc syringe cut the end off, pull the plunger all the way back and start pushing the syringe into the composition untill its full then putioh it against something flat & push hard to compact the composition then push it out like tube of playdoe, get razor, & cut any size u want.(personally I like them a little over 1/4" let them dry for a week & BAM! Ur good.

[Pyrophoric]

Hi I'm new here guys. Just have a quick question: I added a little too much(by 3%) dextrine to my d-1 comp. Has anyone else done this? What effect did it have or what effect do you anticipate?

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Pyrophoric

[dan999ification]

it shouldnt matter too much, the stars will be hard and may burn slower. Is the comp still in powder form? You could add more comp minus the dex, if you made stars already test the burn time to be sure they dont come down.

 

Dan.

[Seymour]

This may have an effect on the glittering, but it is hard to say to what extent. My gut feeling is that if anything it will disturb the distinctiveness of the glitter spritzels, meaning it will be more like twinkly firedust of the brocade type than explicit and distinct flashes of a perfect glitter. With any luck it will be more on the true glitter end of the spectrum.

 

To an extent it will depend on the quality of the mix you made in the first place. If it's made using quite coarse chemicals and mixed a bit less intimately (as many people do to extend the tail length) adding extra dextrin is likely to have more of an effect and you can expect more burning fallout. If everything is getting closer to being excessively milled and mixed, I expect the difference in performance to be less severe.

 

From a perspective of working with the stars, D1 is already a composition that can have small hygroscopicity problems, and more dextrin will make this worse, but I'd certainly not say unusably so.

 

As Dan noted, if this is still a powder you can easily make up the correct amount of Potassium nitrate, Sulfur, Charcoal, Aluminium and Sodium bicarbonate to make the perfect mix. Assuming that you used 5% Dextrin, you will now have 8%. I suggest you make the same amount of mix (minus Dextrin) as you have made already. This will bring the content to a good 4%, which is plenty, and makes everything easy.

[Pyrophoric]

I've already made stars with the comp so it's pretty much a wash at this point.

I milled all but the aluminum together and screened in the Al just before pumping the stars.

I was shooting for 4% dextrine and do to lack of attention put in 7%. I'll just wait for them to dry and load up a good "junk shot" lol. Yeah, I'll definitely test a couple in the star gun before putting them in a shell though.