My quest for optimized blues

[50AE]

Because of lack of local chemical avaibility and price reasons, I decided to develop my own blue formulas, which must:

 

-Give a good color

-Be cheap

-Handled without safety issues

 

After reading lots about the blue compositions and after some calculations, I decided I will prepare four batches of different compositions that will be tested and the best will be picked up. Every composition is calculated and is very slight oxygen negative, because AFAIK, in this state the best colors are given. Excess oxygen gives red dots at the flame, while a lack of it makes yellow color appear because of the incomplete burn of carbon (CO product instead of CO2).

 

The choice of fuels is also very important to one's taste. While cooler burning fuels like lactose and sulfur will give a deeper blue, the color won't be very bright. If hotter fuels like rosins are used, it will be other way. More brightness but less deep blue. I intend to find the balance that works the best for me.

 

So here are the 4 compositions I have planned to do. So far, I've made the 1st one, primed the stars and waiting them to dry.

 

Composition 1

KClO3 : 66

Cu oxy : 13

Lactose : 12

PVC : 6

Dextrin : 4

 

Composition 2

 

KClO3 : 67

Cu oxy : 13

Shellac : 4

PVC : 8

Dextrin : 4

 

Composition 3

 

KClO3 : 68

Cu oxy : 13

Lactose : 7

PVC : 7

Shellac : 2

Dextrin : 4

 

Composition 4

 

KClO3 : 68

Cu oxy : 13

Sulfur : 11

PVC : 8

Dextrin : 4

 

 

All questions and suggestions are welcome.

The compositions cannot be made cheaper than this. Cu oxy costs 1.5E/kg and PVC 8E/kg. KClO3 is home made by electrolysis.

 

Stechiometry:

 

Cu oxy O2 balance is considered as 0

 

KClO3 + Lactose

 

8 KClO3 + C12H22O11.H2O ---> 8 KCl + 12CO2 + 12 H2O

 

=1g lactose per 2,86g KClO3

 

 

KClO3 + Shellac

 

13,66 KClO3 + C16H26O4 ---> 13,66 KCl + 16CO2 + 13 H2O

 

=1g shellac per 5,94g KClO3

 

 

KClO3 + PVC

 

3,66 KClO3 + 2 C2H3Cl ---> 3,66 KCl + 4 CO2 + 3 H2O + Cl2

 

=1g PVC per 3,59g KClO3

 

 

KClO3 + Dextrin

4 KClO3 + C6H10O5 ---> 4 KCl + 6 CO2 + 5 H2O

 

= 1g dextrin per 3,02g KClO3

 

 

KClO3 + Sulfur

 

2 KClO3 + 3 S ---> 2 KCl + 3 SO2

 

=1g sulfur per 2,55g KClO3

Edited February 8, 2011 by 50AE

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Love your input.

 

My limited experience with oxychloride blues has not yet verified the claims about color quality. The oxide seems to work equally well, or even better. May have tried the wrong formulas though.

 

I have to get a hold of this goddamn arsenic oxide and finally make some paris green.

[50AE]

Love your input.

 

My limited experience with oxychloride blues has not yet verified the claims about color quality. The oxide seems to work equally well, or even better. May have tried the wrong formulas though.

 

I have to get a hold of this goddamn arsenic oxide and finally make some paris green.

 

AFAIK, copper oxide is best together with KClO4, the oxychloride with KClO3. Though both are great blue color producers. CuO gives oxygen, so it has to be counted when balancing the composition. CuO is here is much more expensive than the oxychloride.

 

In his Russian book, Chuvurin says that monovalent copper salts are better color givers, because Cu (II) tends to give a little in the green spectrum. I don't know how much true is this, but Cu (I) salts are unstable (correct me if I'm wrong) and expensive too.

 

Here, arsenic compounds are expensive as hell. I wouldn't think to start such a thread, if I had some copper acetoarsenite with me.

[Algenco]

Paris Green, $20 lb

[Peret]

Paris Green, $20 lb

Don't tease - the Admiral and 50AE live in Europe.

 

Of course, they could always take a trip over here and swallow some condoms filled with Paris Green for the trip back. That would take some courage, though I'm not sure the consequences of a breakage would be any more fatal than if it were filled with heroin or cocaine. Maybe they could get a mule to do it, and a second one to take back some ammonium perchlorate.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Peret

[50AE]

Test of composition No 1:

 

KClO3 : 66

Cu oxy : 13

Lactose : 12

PVC : 6

Dextrin : 4

 

http://pyrobin.com/files/2011-02-12.mp4

 

Note that the camera is a Canon G2, its video resolution is very low, but it captures colors almost like my eye does. So I may say the colors are almost close to what I see.

I think the blue is acceptable, we are going to see if the 3 other compositions will give better results .

Edited February 11, 2011 by 50AE

[NightHawkInLight]

I think it looks very nice. It will be interesting to see a comparison with the others. Perhaps make a series of mines with them side by side to go off at once. That way you know your camera isn't picking up the colors any differently on each night you test the comps individually.

[50AE]

Yes, I will test each individually and then all will be fired together.

[petroleum]

Some time ago I had a problem with chlorate blue. The comp was KClO3/sugar/Cu oxychloride/parlon/+5%Cooper carbonate for stabilization+5%dextrine. Solvent-water. This comp give a good blue and successful ignition in aerial shells. 300 g bach of theese stars were stored in sealed PE container at room temp for a couple of month without any changes. After that the impermeability of the container was broken and stars were stored in a wet garage for about 3 month at 5-10 C temp. When I tried to use them, I found that the container with stars have a strong clorine odour (or something like chlorine). So, as I understand there was autocatalitic reaction. I didnt measure the pH of the comp(I think that it was acidic), I just drown the stars in WC. Potassium chlorate was 99,5% pure. I think that my Cu oxychloride can give some impurities what couse the problem. Be careful with chlorate comps even if you use stabilization agents. Edited February 13, 2011 by petroleum

[Arthur]

Chlorate and sulphur is probably the first incompatibility to learn in pyro. Given modern sulphur perhaps the risk is reduced but it's something best not to make and certainly not to store. Humidity cycling with the weather is the cause of spontaneous explosions.

[50AE]

My personal opinion is that such mixtures can be handled quite safely. It's a matter of personal choice here. Sulfur is very pure these days, as the potassium chlorate is. Compare it to the lactose. My sulfur doesn't shift the pH from 7.0, whereas the lactose does, in solution. So why later should be considered safer?

 

Chlorate and sulfur is still used by some, AFAIK by the Japanese and Maltese the most. Sulfur gives very pure colors.

 

The irony is.. It doesn't seem that my sulfur mix welds a good color, it seems to give much red tips at the flames and the colors seems a little violet. I'll test all the comps in the air and tell.

 

One question.. All my stars give a little red flame tip. And the oxygen balance is negative. AFAIK, it's because of the air oxidation of CuCl to CuO. Is there any way to get rid of it? It would be hard though.. Maybe changing the shape of the star from cut to round, because the cut stars seems to give very sharp flame edges with more surface area?

[NightHawkInLight]

Cut stars are going to burn faster and give a larger flame envelope. I suppose it is possible that making them round would slow the burn rate enough to decrease the red tips. I'm just thinking out loud, but perhaps having the oxygen balance too far in the negative may have the opposite effect you intend, by propelling much of the fuel out to burn in atmosphere without close enough proximity of the coloring agent. There might be a sweet spot you need to find.

[50AE]

Maybe gonna test two more compositions and post a video later tonight

 

EDIT: Here's a VIDEO !

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LXfXsZyO8c

 

The formulas are calculated to be veeery slight oxygen negative.

 

There's one thing that bothers me though. I fear that PVC doesn't burn completely as I think it does. Is it possible? How much of it is really a "fuel". The star leaves quite of carbon residue, which should be normal. Well, parlon leaves residue as well, but is considered as a bad fuel.

 

What is really the burning reaction of PVC? I know it gives off gaseous HCl, as Shimizu states, so I am correction the balance from my first post:

 

KClO3 + PVC

 

5 KClO3 + 3 C2H3Cl ---> 5 KCl + 6 CO2 + 3 H2O + 3 HCl

 

= 3,26 KClO3 per 1 g PVC.

Edited February 13, 2011 by 50AE

[Ralph]

the great chlorate safety debate isn't one I want to get into again because every idiot has their own opinion on it but why did you bother having "-Handled without safety issues" whats the plan not to dampen the composition with conc sulfuric or maybe don't use primary explosives as fuel/oxidiser (depending on oxygen balance) or maybe use RP as a primary fuel as it has no hydrogen so will give a nice clean flame with no red tips ?

[50AE]

You are right - every idiot has its own opinion.

And it is mine - these can handled without safety issues.

If one doesn't consider it this way, no one forces him to make my compositions. Let him play with his KP blues.

Period.

[Ralph]

Im not questioning your safety here and well what you do is upto you just why bother mentioning the formula needs to be safe when youve thrown all that out the window

[50AE]

Because I consider it ok to handle by myself. There is no safe pyrotechnic formula. Some need less precautions, so they are recommended for beginners. Others need more precautions, like mine. And there are some that no matter what precautions are taken, an accident will happen. Mine don't go in the last category. Edited February 15, 2011 by 50AE

[Mumbles]

My personal opinion is that such mixtures can be handled quite safely. It's a matter of personal choice here. Sulfur is very pure these days, as the potassium chlorate is. Compare it to the lactose. My sulfur doesn't shift the pH from 7.0, whereas the lactose does, in solution. So why later should be considered safer?

 

Chlorate and sulfur is still used by some, AFAIK by the Japanese and Maltese the most. Sulfur gives very pure colors.

 

 

Acidity is not the only cause of sensitivity in these mixes.

 

The chlorate/sulfur mixes are only used in exhibition shells, not for every day manufacturing. I know the maltese still use chlorate/sulfur mixes, but you also hear about 2-3 big factory explosions every year from said mixtures. The Japanese, while they may for very special shells, I have not heard anything recently about them still utilizing such mixes with such a poor track record.

 

I know you think you can work with them safely, but just be careful and weigh the risks. I really hope you're not making them inside any residence. Trust me when I say that is a bad idea.

[50AE]

Honestly said, the sulfur formula is useless for me now, because my favorite is the shellac fueled one. But there were times when I needed chlorate sulfur comps, now I don't and maybe I'll need them again. For the NYE I was so desperate making an acceptable blue that I made it with sulfur and KClO3.

 

I still think they can be handled safely, though the risk is greater and yes, they are not for every day use. I avoid them if possible, but use them if really needed.

 

I think the major problem comes from us people building up bad habbits of ignoring safety when working with the same comp more and more. For the first time, you will be extra careful and everything will be ok. But who knows, after a few handlings of the composition, one would start to feel comfortable and forget what he's really handling. For example, he could step on a couple of spilled stars without much care.

 

About the Japanese sulfur/chlorate use, I was told by a very reliable person from passfire.

[mabuse00]

@50AE:

Do you need any prime on the sulfurless formulas?

[50AE]

I prime all stars with regular meal powder to insure ignition and engulf the star.

[athlon]

I like the colors of all the comps! Very nice.