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#1 pyrochris732

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:19 PM

ive used the canister salutes in the past but would like to try hemis for my salutes.

First, is the comp simply poured into the hemi and closed with tape? How do the pros do it?

Would I wrap it with kraft tape the same way that I would with all shells? This is for 3 and 4 inch salutes. Any tips?

I cant find any information on this.

Thanks,

Chris

#2 Xtreme Pyro

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:31 PM

ive used the canister salutes in the past but would like to try hemis for my salutes.

First, is the comp simply poured into the hemi and closed with tape? How do the pros do it?

Would I wrap it with kraft tape the same way that I would with all shells? This is for 3 and 4 inch salutes. Any tips?

I cant find any information on this.

Thanks,

Chris


Not sure if this belongs in the compositions thread.. but usually I use the binary mixing method for aerial salutes, which means putting Part A, and B in the hemis and closing it up. The composition is mixed from handling the shell, ive never had a problem with it. As for pasting your shells, you would use the 3-strip method like you would for all ball shells, but I normally use plastic shells sealed with xylene and wrapped with 3 rings of strapping tape for my salutes.

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#3 pyrochris732

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 03:47 PM

Not sure if this belongs in the compositions thread.. but usually I use the binary mixing method for aerial salutes, which means putting Part A, and B in the hemis and closing it up. The composition is mixed from handling the shell, ive never had a problem with it. As for pasting your shells, you would use the 3-strip method like you would for all ball shells, but I normally use plastic shells sealed with xylene and wrapped with 3 rings of strapping tape for my salutes.



excellent, and you still get the same deep report that you would with paper? I have fiberglass reinforced tape that would be good for that purpose.

Do you think giving the plastic hemis a spray with static guard would be a good safeguard?

#4 Xtreme Pyro

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 04:08 PM

excellent, and you still get the same deep report that you would with paper? I have fiberglass reinforced tape that would be good for that purpose.

Do you think giving the plastic hemis a spray with static guard would be a good safeguard?


Yep, actually I think they're louder IMHO. That's what I normally do spray my table, and my hemis with static guard before mixing. I also wear one of those anti static wristbands that can be plugged into the grounding port on an electrical outlet, you should be able to pick one up at any electronic supply store for a decent price.

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#5 fredhappy

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:25 PM

ive used the canister salutes in the past but would like to try hemis for my salutes.

First, is the comp simply poured into the hemi and closed with tape? How do the pros do it?

Would I wrap it with kraft tape the same way that I would with all shells? This is for 3 and 4 inch salutes. Any tips?

I cant find any information on this.

Thanks,

Chris


I binary mix all my paper ballshell salutes. It works real good, and they are extremely loud. I have some information regarding this way of mixing flash. Basically you just put the KCLO4 in the hemi, add the dark Al on top of it, and some dry rice hulls. Close it up and that's it.

1: only use 70/30 flash without sulfur....please...This mix is loud enough by itself, I've never quite understood why people add sulfur.

2: I personally fill my hemis only half full. There must be space in the ballshell so the flash can move and be mixed intimately.

3: I always add dry ricehulls as a fluffing agent . I have noticed how this greatly improves mixing the salute through ordinary handling such as pasting.

4: If you want to add titanium for sparks, and want to be on the safest side, coat the inside of the paper hemi with glue and then add some titanium. Close the hemis, shake, and open it up again. Now your walls are coated with titanium. Let it dry for a night, and then make your salute. This way you eliminate having to mix in the titanium with the flash and thus making it more sensitive. I use sponge titanium.

Some numbers for you:

A 3 inch salute will hold about 50 grams of flash mixed with the binary method. A 4 inch salute about 120 grams. Don't shoot too high, experiment with timing. I love my salutes a bit low, but obviously not too low hehe......

Spaying with static spray is not mandatory. You don't mix flash in the open, so there should be no significant danger in regard to static buildup. I paste with 3 layers of 3 strip method. This works fine with me.

Be safe, but have fun, we all love a nice salute now and then.Stick with 70/30 or nitrate based flash.

friendly pyro greetings,

Edited by fredhappy, 23 December 2010 - 05:46 PM.


#6 Seymour

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 02:36 PM

As for pasting your shells, you would use the 3-strip method like you would for all ball shells


Well, you don't have to if you don't want to, and I certainly don't!

In my opinion the three strip method is causing a huge excess of trouble for yourself. There is simply no need to use so many small bits of paper per layer, especially for such small shells. I personally use my "two piece tennis ball pattern" method. Two pieces per layer as opposed to at least a dozen or two for three strip, and my shells burst fine. For bigger and more elaborate shells I use a better pasting method than the tennis ball pattern, but nothing as painful as three strip.

On a salute you really just need to wrap a wide strip around the equator hold it together and seal it, and to use pasted string or some other method to seal the timefuse/hemisphere join. The hemispheres (assuming that they are standard commercial ones) will provide enough strength to handle lift, and enough confinement for the flash. Most important is to completely, and reliably seal it from lift gasses to prevent an unintended ground salute with mortar fragment effect.

http://pyroguide.com...age:Jelly_2.jpg

The above photo shows how I use pasted string to seal the timefuse/hemisphere join. It is very reliable and is used on good Chinese shells as one of the processes used to get their exceptionally low failure rate.

#7 pyrochris732

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 05:41 PM

wow, great responses guys... exactly what i was looking for.

Thanks a lot!

#8 pyrokid

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 11:03 PM

wow, great responses guys... exactly what i was looking for.

Thanks a lot!



Hey, Chris:

Why are you so interested in ball salutes? I always thought cannister salutes were the louder variety?

Merry Christmas to all!

#9 pyrochris732

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 11:32 PM

just wanted to try something different.

Well, I have 2.5 OD canisters that have 1/4 inch walls on them. I fire those out of a 3 inch mortar and they hold about 120 grams. So, yes they are pretty powerful.. lol.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Chris

#10 vladou

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 01:20 PM

You guys add some rice hulls coated black powder with flash powder for aerial salute right? How much do you add? 75/25 flash powder/rice hulls could be fine couln't it?

I always use only FP but I think that's too much expensive and more instable. Last year I put 75g of FP in a 3" round shell but I think I'd been able to put more than 100g..

Or maybe use rice hulls as a carrier for the flash powder?

Edited by vladou, 25 December 2010 - 01:21 PM.


#11 pyrochris732

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 01:39 PM

You guys add some rice hulls coated black powder with flash powder for aerial salute right? How much do you add? 75/25 flash powder/rice hulls could be fine couln't it?

I always use only FP but I think that's too much expensive and more instable. Last year I put 75g of FP in a 3" round shell but I think I'd been able to put more than 100g..

Or maybe use rice hulls as a carrier for the flash powder?



75 in a 3 inch? didnt know it would fit that much. But yea I think the hulls would serve to mix it well and maybe act the same way that BP coated rice hulls do in terms of added surface area. I wont use that much rice hulls, maybe just a pinch in there.

#12 Seymour

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 03:36 PM

I think that the rice hulls are mostly there for mixing. Since Flash burns very fast through a powdered mass, there is no need for added surface area. By granulating it, or coating it on rice hulls, you are most likely going to slow it down.

Personally what I consider to be important is the quantity of flash. You can fit a lot of flash in a 3" shell.

I've got a 64g flash salute for my NYE display and it is a loose fit in a 2" mortar. Unless you are doing the Binary mixing method, it seems to me that if you are not filling it, you may as well make a smaller salute with the same flash quantity and save on lift.

While I am perfectly happy to mix flash and Black powder, I consider the mixture to be less stable than pure flash (70/30). The BP will add an ever so slight sulfur contamination, and contact between nitrates and Al. As I said, not enough to make me uncomfortable, but adding BP to increase stability is probably counter productive. Will make a nice deep BOOM though.

#13 Ralph

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 10:13 PM

Hey, Chris:

Why are you so interested in ball salutes? I always thought cannister salutes were the louder variety?

Merry Christmas to all!


a ball shell will be louder if the walls are thicker/stronger which if you make a salute as you would a regular can shell is thinner than a ball shell if you use a thick tube and strong end plugs for a canister than it will be louder than a ball personally I see 2 good reasons for making cans

firstly its easy to fill them easily and safely to the top no snapping two flash filled hemis together and no nasty air gaps causing weakness

secondly its cheaper and quicker to make cans even if your buying the cardboard tubes

Edited by Ralph, 26 December 2010 - 02:34 AM.

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#14 Mumbles

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 02:05 AM

Thirdly, you can fit more flash into a cylinder. An added benefit is that you'll never get it as intimately mixed with a binary method as you will pre-mixing.
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#15 frosty90

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:44 AM

firstly its easy to fill them easily and safely to the top no snapping two flash filled hemis together and no nasty air gaps causing weakness


An easier way for 3"s is to put your composition in a paper or plastic bag, tie it to the end of the fuse, and insert the fuse through the inside of one shell hemi, and glue in place. Then you just need to put the other hemi on. No snapping one onto the other with both full of compo. Then you cannot spill any.

#16 Ralph

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:15 AM

I still think making a can is a better idea a good method for doing it the worse way is still inferior to the good way canister is so simple and easy and quick try it and I doubt youll go back
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#17 pyrochris732

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:30 AM

i just wanted to share something real quick from NYE. I had about 5-10 grams of leftover 70:30 using indian blackhead Al. My buddy and I carefully placed it on newspaper and brought it outside to burn it off. I only folded the paper up once so that the wind would not blow it away and stuck a fuse through the paper. 20 seconds later there was a boom that was as loud as any salute I was in close proximity to. Confined only by a thin layer of newspaper. I couldnt get over how little confinement it took to make a report like that. I was only expecting a loud poof at most.

#18 dagabu

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:43 PM

I doubt it was the newspaper that made it go boom, I have had heaps as small as 10 grams detonate in open air.
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#19 pyrochris732

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:07 PM

i thought it takes as much as 50 grams to self confine and make a really loud boom. Im sure the newspaper helped.

#20 dagabu

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:32 PM

i thought it takes as much as 50 grams to self confine and make a really loud boom. Im sure the newspaper helped.


I think it depends on the ingredients and the fineness of the materials used. I used ball milled pot perc and used Angie's Aluminum to see if it would pop. Needless to say, the boom was a LOT louder then what I was expecting.

Edited by dagabu, 09 January 2011 - 02:09 PM.

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