pyrosailor99 Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I bought some year ago a bag of dextrin and a bag of Arabic Gum (different online supplier)... I wonder if it is normal that both are WHITE. i ever seen Dextrin as a yellowish powder... but i received it as a white powder...i really don't know if it is good or if i have to buy it again from foreign seller (in my country it is impossible to find dextrin as in world website yellow powder). i tested my dextrin one time... but i don't know if it works because in that time i produced very low quality BP... so i can't say nothing about dextrin quality. have you ever bought white dextrin? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralDonSnider Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 IIRC white dextrin is both more pricey and the better quality binder (still less good than gum arabic). Correct me if I´m wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 11, 2010 Author Share Posted October 11, 2010 so should i ever replace dextrin with arabic gum when i have it? and if so, in what proportions? eg. for black match i should add 5% dextrin to meal powder... if i can use arabic gum what % i have to add to meal powder?anyway should i use white dextrin in different proportion respect to the yellow dextrin? [PS. i don't know what mean "IIRC"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) so should i ever replace dextrin with arabic gum when i have it? and if so, in what proportions? eg. for black match i should add 5% dextrin to meal powder... if i can use arabic gum what % i have to add to meal powder?anyway should i use white dextrin in different proportion respect to the yellow dextrin? [PS. i don't know what mean "IIRC"] IIRC = If I remember correctly. I imagine you won't do any harm adding 4-5% arabic gum. Also, just to let you know, Dextrin is both easy and cheap to make yourself. Spread some cornstarch on a wide flat pan, and throw it in the oven at ~350 for about an hour or two... might want to stir it around every 20-30 minutes untill you get a nice even gold. Edited October 11, 2010 by Updup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 There aren't very many comps that are extremely sensitive to the exact % of binder. If you wind up using 3% or 7% instead of 5%, it's not going to matter for something like blackmatch. I've not used gum arabic, but have successfully subsituted red gum in alcohol for dextrin and water every time I've tried it. I get the sense that the main reason dextrin is used at all is because it is simple and cheap and requires no fancy solvents. (There are comps where you have to NOT use dextrin, but I can't think of one off the top of my head where you HAVE to use dextrin.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 IIRC white dextrin is both more pricey and the better quality binder (still less good than gum arabic). Correct me if I´m wrong! White dextrin is cheaper ( or atleast for me) when I buy mine in 1kg incraments it costs $6.95 when I get yellow dextrin even at 20kg amounts it costs ~$10.00 per killo admitedly they are from different sorces but both are food grade. Also I dont think its a better binder when mixed with water it is sticky but sticky like a star comp with dextrin added not like yellow dextrin is on its own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 White dextrin is cheaper ( or atleast for me) when I buy mine in 1kg incraments it costs $6.95 when I get yellow dextrin even at 20kg amounts it costs ~$10.00 per killo admitedly they are from different sorces but both are food grade. Also I dont think its a better binder when mixed with water it is sticky but sticky like a star comp with dextrin added not like yellow dextrin is on its own Wow! thats quite pricey. Why don't you make your dextrin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Wow! thats quite pricey. Why don't you make your dextrin? I used to but 1kg makes a minimum of 10kg worth of compositions and so it is adding like $1 to the cost of a kg of comp or if we are talking bp 20cents per kilo and commercial dextrin made by acid hydrolysis is better than anyone at home could ever make using thermal hydrolysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 IIRC = If I remember correctly. I imagine you won't do any harm adding 4-5% arabic gum. Also, just to let you know, Dextrin is both easy and cheap to make yourself. Spread some cornstarch on a wide flat pan, and throw it in the oven at ~350 for about an hour or two... might want to stir it around every 20-30 minutes untill you get a nice even gold. 350° F? C? my oven arrives to 250°C... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) 350° F? C? my oven arrives to 250°C... 350F use Corn Starch, commonly sold as a thickening agent for soups and gravy Edited October 12, 2010 by Algenco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 350° F? C? my oven arrives to 250°C... 350 F is equal to 175 C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I used to but 1kg makes a minimum of 10kg worth of compositions and so it is adding like $1 to the cost of a kg of comp or if we are talking bp 20cents per kilo and commercial dextrin made by acid hydrolysis is better than anyone at home could ever make using thermal hydrolysis Crazy! I have a 20# of yellow dex that I paid a buck a pound for. I think I need to start doing some group buys here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgoty Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Gum arabic makes great blackmatch far better than the dextrin equiv. I just replace the 5 grams of dex with ga and the fuse comes out with a thick flexible coat that doesn't fall off when the fuse is bent. Its worth getting some just for fuse I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Gum arabic makes great blackmatch far better than the dextrin equiv. I just replace the 5 grams of dex with ga and the fuse comes out with a thick flexible coat that doesn't fall off when the fuse is bent. Its worth getting some just for fuse I think. I am partial to CMC for black match, its cheaper and stronger then GA. GA works OK but to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgoty Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I am partial to CMC for black match, its cheaper and stronger then GA. GA works OK but to each his own. Well GA is much better then dextrin IMO. Haven't tried CMC, I have either that or some SGRS that I haven't tried anything with yet. Will give it a go with fuse whatever it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyrosailor99 Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 CMC? SGRS? what they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgoty Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 CMC? SGRS? what they are? Just binders of a different kind. I believe they use Gum Arabic to make chewing and bubble gum amongst other things. Not sure what the others are used for but there are many binders used in the food industry. So far we know CMC and GA or really good for black match making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Pig snot is better then dextrin IMHO!! If you have GA, go for it, If you wanna try some CMC, I can send you some to try (USA only). Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) or cellulose gum[1] is a cellulose derivative with carboxymethyl groups (-CH2-COOH) bound to some of the hydroxyl groups of the glucopyranose monomers that make up the cellulose backbone. It is often used as its sodium salt, sodium carboxymethyl cellulose. SGRS, Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Pig snot is better then dextrin IMHO!! If you have GA, go for it, If you wanna try some CMC, I can send you some to try (USA only). Carboxymethyl cellulose (CMC) or cellulose gum[1] is a cellulose derivative with carboxymethyl groups (-CH2-COOH) bound to some of the hydroxyl groups of the glucopyranose monomers that make up the cellulose backbone. It is often used as its sodium salt, sodium carboxymethyl cellulose. SGRS, Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch I'm pretty sure CMC is what they use in food items such as Jiff peanutbutter to prevent the oil seperating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausgoty Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Pig snot is better then dextrin IMHO!! HAHA, I second that statement!!! Although I would prefer to use my own Yes, I have 500 grams of CMC sitting in my shed, will give that a try next time I'm match making. I knew I bought it for a reason ?????? Good for stars as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I'm pretty sure CMC is what they use in food items such as Jiff peanutbutter to prevent the oil seperating Not that I know of, Rapeseed oil is what they use in most peanut butter. CMC is what is used to thicken food, pie filling and the like use it. Get hit in the throat by a hockey puck and try to swallow water, cant be done. CMC thickens it up so one with a bruised trachea can swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 HAHA, I second that statement!!! Although I would prefer to use my own Yes, I have 500 grams of CMC sitting in my shed, will give that a try next time I'm match making. I knew I bought it for a reason ?????? Good for stars as well? It can be good with stars but can contribute salt to the comp and that can wash the colors out. I like it for charcoal comps, no problems there that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Not that I know of, Rapeseed oil is what they use in most peanut butter. CMC is what is used to thicken food, pie filling and the like use it. Get hit in the throat by a hockey puck and try to swallow water, cant be done. CMC thickens it up so one with a bruised trachea can swallow. Blast it. I could have sworn I read the peanut butter thing on the forum. Sucks to be wrong =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Updup Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 though you can get CMC at most hardware stores as wallpaper adhesive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Algenco Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 though you can get CMC at most hardware stores as wallpaper adhesive Try to find it, maybe a few years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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