21 replies to this topic

[swapnilsutar1988]

Note-all parts by weight only

Barium nitrate...........4
aluminium pow.(dark)........1
sulphur..........1
pvc pow..........1/4
boric acid........1%
 sodium nitrate prime is suitable
don't damp with water. I use hens egg(only liquid part not yolk)

[Pretty green flame]

don't damp with water. I use hens egg(only liquid part not yolk)

You serious? Why not bind with a water soluble binder?

[swapnilsutar1988]

You serious? Why not bind with a water soluble binder?

water reacts with alu.pow to produce heat which decreases the ignition temp.of composotion.don't worry I have dampen it with dextrin and water several times.It is relatively safe.Then why take a risk.....

[Pretty green flame]

But you have Boric Acid in the mix which neutralizes the reation between Aluminium and Nitrates so there's nothing to worry about.

[Ralph]

presumably thats why you added boric acid to your composition adding egg white is neither sane nor economical or particularly practical as a binder and would most probably go rancid giving a very shot shelf life

[NightHawkInLight]

presumably thats why you added boric acid to your composition adding egg white is neither sane nor economical or particularly practical as a binder and would most probably go rancid giving a very shot shelf life

All true. Still, I like your creativity. I would not have thought of egg white as a binder for stars. Sounds like it could have been an ancient method. I doubt it, but still interesting.

[TheSidewinder]

For all we know, eggs are cheaper than Dextrin in India.

And what do you think is the binder for those lovely Frescoes in Italy? And Tempura?

Pay attention to location.

[Ralph]

the average egg contains 38g of egg white which is comprised 90% of water (so this being an aqueous binding solution voids the idea of not wetting to prevent a nitrate al reaction) so in a best case scenario we have 3.8g of binder per egg (263 would make 1kg) at wholesale Australian prices that's $55 for 1kg. and seeing as both dextrin and an egg come from the same/similar raw materials I would say its highly doubtful that the eggs would be cheaper than the dextrin

And what do you think is the binder for those lovely Frescoes in Italy? And Tempura?

egg yolk was sometimes used for Frescoes the white was considered a nuisance and discarded as it didn't have sufficient binding qualities. Dont fry your tempura or leave it for a week let me know how its holding up and or smelling

[TheSidewinder]

Tempura Paints, Ralph. They originally used egg white.

Was it egg yolks in Renaissance frescoes then? Hmm... thought it was the whites because of the Albumen(?) in them. Owell. Either way, if it works, it works.

[Mnemotron]

Hi to all,

Can anyone suggest my a good green star formula with Bacl2?

Thank you!!!

[dagabu]

Ba(ClO3)2?

I have nothing for Barium Chloride at all just Barium Chlorate.

[Mumbles]

Actually, egg whites were used well into the 20th century as a star binder in Italy. I believe it's referenced in Kentish, but I couldn't find it. I for a fact that it's referenced in DiMaio on page 27. It is used for all chlorate based color stars, where as gum arabic was prone to souring and potentially causing spontaneous ignition. Egg whites prevented this. It should be noted that none of these stars contain secondary binders, so it does function quite well as a binder surprisingly enough. It comes with a note that it doesn't prevent double decomposition reactions, but I don't know about metal/nitrate reactions as they're all organic based. Then again, I've never had a problem with nitrate/aluminum reactions without any heavily basic coloring agents. Barium nitrate is naturally somewhat acidic anyway so I've never actually heard it ever reacting with aluminum.

If the stars did go rotten, there is no mention of it anywhere. It'd be hard to believe stars with a shelf life of only a couple days are in any way useful. Many salts can stabilize proteins. Egg whites can't go rancid anyway.

For those of you saying it's too expensive, behold.
http://www.eggwhites...tore.php?crn=66

In any case 1 egg is more than enough to do 100g of comp. So lets call it 8 eggs per kilo. While dextrin or other binders would be cheaper, and no one would do this commercially, it's not nearly as expensive as you're making it out to be.

[Mnemotron]

Ba(ClO3)2?

I have nothing for Barium Chloride at all just Barium Chlorate.

nothing?

[OneEyeCharlie]

For those of you saying it's too expensive, behold.
http://www.eggwhites...tore.php?crn=66

Ah jeez. The woman holding the 2 gallon jar scares me... but I can't stop looking. Kinda like a bad accident on the highway.

[Algenco]

Ah jeez. The woman holding the 2 gallon jar scares me... but I can't stop looking. Kinda like a bad accident on the highway.

Wow!

[Karlos]

Mnemotron: Ba(ClO3)2 or BaCl2? BaCl2 is hygroscopic and compositions stability is decrease. Burning of compositions with BaCl2 is worse and better variant are mixtures with Mg!
For BaCl2 : 45% Ba(NO3)2, 30% BaCl2, 15% Mg, 10% shellac or red gum as binder (low chemical stability!!!)
For Ba(ClO3)2: 63% Ba(ClO3)2 25% Ba(NO3)2 12% shellac or red gum(binder) or (+ 5% dextrin) Barium chlorate is more toxic, than nitrate and composition are more sensitive and explosive, but allegedly give perfect green! Source: A. A. Šidlovskij book.

Edited by Karlos, 01 December 2010 - 11:31 AM.

[Mnemotron]

Mnemotron: Ba(ClO3)2 or BaCl2? BaCl2 is hygroscopic and compositions stability is decrease. Burning of compositions with BaCl2 is worse and better variant are mixtures with Mg!
For BaCl2 : 45% Ba(NO3)2, 30% BaCl2, 15% Mg, 10% shellac or red gum as binder (low chemical stability!!!)
For Ba(ClO3)2: 63% Ba(ClO3)2 25% Ba(NO3)2 12% shellac or red gum(binder) or (+ 5% dextrin) Barium chlorate is more toxic, than nitrate and composition are more sensitive and explosive, but allegedly give perfect green! Source: A. A. Šidlovskij book.

Thank you for the formulas but i haven't barium nitrate.i tryied this formula with no result (yellow flame):

KClO3, 57
BaCl2, 20
Shellac, 8
PVC, 10
Dextrin, 5

I think that adding some mgal and removing some pvc or shellac the green can appear.What do you think?.I saw that the green colour is hard to obtain as it need very high temperature.For the green i have only baco3 and bacl2

Edited by Mnemotron, 01 December 2010 - 05:22 PM.

[Mumbles]

It might be because you bound it with water. BaCl2 is pretty hygroscopic, and water could certainly slow it enough to only burn yellowish.

[Karlos]

Mnemotron: 10%PVC in low temperature composition is not good idea. For right function need higher temperature, and I wrote, that BaCl2 is hygroscopic and You must bind these mixtures with resin and alcohol, or another type, than water soluble. Buy Ba(NO3)2 and red gum!

[Mnemotron]

It might be because you bound it with water. BaCl2 is pretty hygroscopic, and water could certainly slow it enough to only burn yellowish.

i bound it with acetone and alchol