Gold Strobe

[Mumbles]

There was a conversation going on at passfire, and it got me thinking about it. Do any of you guys know how to make gold strobes? I have an educated guess, but thought I'd throw it out there. The color doesn't come through tremendously, but you get the idea. Al Knoblach's shells are the one that sparked the discussion actually, which are the first two. I think it could be an interesting discussion if people ever get around to trying anything out.

 

 

A better color example, but could be AP based

 

Al wont give away the formulas, but they made it on the Dirty Jobs episode, so you can probably get some hints. The way the episode is edited together it makes it seem like a win 20 type mix. KNO3/charcoal/sulfur/dextrin/Sodium Bicarb/MgAl. They also show them later and they're pretty dark. I would have figured they were Barium nitrate based, but then realized that you can't use sodium bicarbonate or oxalate with them. Maybe if you bind them with NC lacquer. I bet if you were so inclined, you could get the formula or figure it out from the videos on youtube.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

His gold strobe isn't a real strobe, I agree, like you say it'll be a win20 type composition. If you're looking real close to the 8 and 12 inch shell you'll notice the twinkling part has a little tail, so it'll be more a glitter type composition. Maybe that's also the reason why he uses this only as core, because otherwise you'll see a tail of glittering when the star has more velocity and travels much further.

There are several kinds of glitters that has huge gold flashes. What I also was told is that FeO could be a interesting ingredient for glitters and strobes.

Don't get fixated about traditional formula's there are so many more.

[Mumbles]

The first thing that came to mind was "oh, just take a normal white Ba(NO3)2 based strobe and add sodium oxalate, easy". I went to go check on a Luce Forte to see how that is colored and remembered the incompatability. It's odd how many Barium Nitrate/Sodium Oxalate mixes there are if they really are incompatible.

 

Fe2O3 really does add an interesting color to the stars. It really gives a coppery sort of color that is very attractive. I really don't have any use for a gold strobe right now, more of an intellectual curiosity. That and not having any published formulas out there makes you really want to know how it's done. I really don't roll stars, so it's more for others to experiment with anyway.

[Twotails]

How is Barium nitrate and sodium Oxalate incompatable? Is it that the BaNO3 reacts forming NaNO3 and what Barium Oxalate, or another Oxalic by product? Maby this could(as you said) could be avoided via the NC(or penolic resin? i think thats what its called, not sure) could it be possable that its a chlorate containing formula? as I remember the mixing of Oxidizers will allow for a pastel color... although i doubt it would do much beyond speed up the reaction. maby it could be made like a matrix comet, like gold glitter microstars(or vice versa) inbeded in a strobe star. Maby the formule is primarly Metal based, wit ha small addition of charcoal(or maby lampblack) for aid in ignition. Not realy sure on this, Im ready for be right now, but tomorrow i'll take a look at some stuff, maby try a few things out. Hmm Great topic though, puts quite a bit of though into it.

[Ralph]

a formula I have from seymour called "slow glitter" and with notes saying large golden flashes is

 

38% KNO₃

14% Ba(NO₃)₂

13% sulfur

12 % Al (45um granular)

10% charcoal

8% red iron oxide

5% gum arabic

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

There are more incompatibilities which however are used a lot, like Nabicarb and Aluminum, or NaOX and Magnalium, or CuO and metals etc etc.

Most important is to check the temperature of the batch, bigger batches tend to heat up more.

 

For glitter dextrin seems the best binder, sgrs, NC and phenolic-resin don't work well for spritzel forming.

For strobe you can use at least, dextrin, NC and phenolic resin.

[50AE]

Are you sure about SGRS? I do use it in my glitter comps and W20 is very beautiful with it.

But you could be right about Al glitters.

What about binding them with wheat paste? It has better binding properties, doesn't effect the comp much, less can be used.

[Pyroboy]

I tried Wino20 as cores a while ago. The effect is like a strobe, but the stars should not move fast as mentioned above.

 

 

On the video you see in the outer petal 6mm rolled cores with 63µm MgAl. It looks kind of silver, but it was gold. The camera did not do a good job.

 

My link

 

 

I also tried to substitude MgAl with Al (65µm) in Wino20. It has lower reactivity than MgAl, so the delay gets greater an the spritz reaction partly occurs on the ground. The intensity an size of the spritz therefore is great.

You can see the Wino20 with Al on this video. The Canistershells at the beginning are partly filled with them.

 

Pyrosession

 

 

I think any long delayed gold Glitter is suitable for "goldstrobe". Important is that the stars don´t move to fast.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Are you sure about SGRS? I do use it in my glitter comps and W20 is very beautiful with it.

But you could be right about Al glitters.

What about binding them with wheat paste? It has better binding properties, doesn't effect the comp much, less can be used.

 

I only have experience with alu glitter like d1 maybe it was because of the high water content with rolling. I always roll stars when possible, even with glitter I like to try, so wheat paste is no option then.

[Mumbles]

Even though Al Knoblach uses a modified glitter, I had a new idea. You can make any shade of color between green to red using barium and strontium salts, which combine to make optical colors. It works well to produce nice clean, non-sodium, yellows. Given that, I was thinking a mix of barium and strontium nitrate in some of the nitrate strobes around might work as well to achieve this effect and create yellow, orange, even lime/chartreuse strobes.

 

I don't think using barium and strontium carbonate combinations as a delay agent in traditional glitters would result in much coloring. This is something we were also discussing when I was talking this idea through with a few people.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Oglesby mentions calcium oxalate for making gold glitters. Edited November 18, 2010 by AdmiralDonSnider

[xBangergoosEx]

I've used

 

48% Kno3

11% Sulfur

10% Antimony Trisulfide

9% Charcoal, Air-float

9% Aluminum, atomized, 12-20 micron

9% Sodium Bicarbonate or Sodium Oxalate

4% Dextrin

+1% Boric Acid

 

Produces an effect similar to the gold strobe in the video. I think the formula Al uses is very similar to this one, and maybe in the Dirty Jobs episode Mike Rowe's eyes are irritated because of the Antimony Trisulfide. AT would really suck to get in your eyes. Al says its the dextrin thats making his eyes burn, but to be honest i think thats for camera purposes. Ive never had a problem with dextrin.

[pyroguy1960]

I used a formula a while back that was supposed to be a gold glitter but it ended up strobing at the end. I think adjusting the baking soda amount will affect the strobe, mumbles correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

 

It's the first shell in this video, this is a 4" shell with rolled stars.

 

 

Here's the comp:

 

KNO3 55

C commercial airflot 11

AL 12 micron atomized 5

S 17

dex 5

Baking Soda 7

Edited November 25, 2010 by jms04081974

[TigerTail]

So will I get a decent slow gold strobe if I replace MgAl in Albert's formula with 325 mesh atomised Al?

 

I recently downloaded the episode. The composition comes out to be(if they didn't lie to the audience) :

 

KNO₃ ---------------------48.29

S----------------------------19.51

MgAl-----------------------9.82

C----------------------------9.755

NaHCO₃------------------7.85

Dextrin---------------------4.88

 

The percentages look okay?

Edited July 17, 2011 by TigerTail

[Seymour]

One way to find out...

 

Certainly you'll get some effect, and whatever it is, it's probably going to be nice

[gordems]

does one have the formula of the last video of that gold strobe it's very very nice Edited July 17, 2011 by gordems

[Mumbles]

No, that is from a commercial company. I'd probably start with the formula just given today.

[TigerTail]

What I am wondering is that converting a slow glitter like composition to strobe would slow it down further, but the strobe in the third video is very fast. Maybe we need an altogether different formula to match that performance.

[gordems]

i want to find some strobe stars but not with ammonium perclorate it' illegal in malta

[Mumbles]

White is easily done with barium nitrate. With some tweaking you can get a passable green. With some what seems like blind luck at times you can get a good green. I don't know what component it is, but it just feels like one of them is somewhat sensitive to quantity. Reds can be made as well with strontium nitrate. As I said before, it seems plausible that you could use a mixture of barium nitrate and strontium nitrate from already developed colored strobes to make yellows, golds, oranges, and all the related optical colors.

[californiapyro]

Not sure if this is any help, but here are a couple base compositions that came to mind when I saw this topic, and I believe could be modified to a gold strobe or used as-is.

 

Twinkling yellow star #1

Source: Composition from Shimizu[1], page 224. Listed as "Twinklers of the ammonium perchlorate base, yellow"

Comments: Frequenty: 3.5 Hz.

Preparation: Add 25 parts 10% nitrocellulose solution in acetone to 100 parts of the composition, and make cut stars. Roll these stars in "priming composition #8", using the same NC paste until stars are round. Add a final layer of black powder in NC paste to ensure ignition.

 

Magnesium, 60 mesh (treated with potassium bichromate).....40

Ammonium perchlorate..............................50

Sodium sulfate....................................10

Potassium dichromate (as a stabilizer)............+5%

 

Twinkling yellow star #2

Source: Composition from Shimizu[1], page 225. Listed as "Twinklers of the nitrate base, yellow"

Comments:

Preparation: Add 25 parts 10% nitrocellulose solution in acetone to 100 parts of the composition, and make cut stars. Roll these stars in "priming composition #8", using the same NC paste until stars are round. Add a final layer of black powder in NC paste to ensure ignition.

 

Magnalium (coated with linseed oil)...............12

Barium nitrate....................................33

Potassium nitrate.................................7

BHC (Benzene hexachloride)........................11

Sulfur............................................27

Antimony trisulfide...............................5

Sodium oxalate....................................5

 

First one seems a little strange, although I don't notice any incompatibilities. Second one has the barium nitrate/sodium oxalate which are supposedly incompatible, but I trust shimizu. just my 2 cents

 

 

[californiapyro]

oops, almost forgot this one:

 

Golden strobe star

Source: "The Pyroguide" (a document found on internet)

Comments: Bind with water. The stars fall through the air and burn in an "on and off" manner. The effect is spectacular.

Preparation: The stars must be pumped or cut.

 

Potassium nitrate.................................18

Sulfur............................................3

Lampblack.........................................3

Aluminum..........................................3

Antimony sulfide..................................3

Sodium oxalate....................................4

 

 

[gordems]

i have the white one

 

barium nitrate 51%

sulpher 19%

magnalium. 18%

putasium nitrate 7%

destrin 5%

 

here are some sampels

 

how can make the red or the green ?

i have something strobes red and green but are not a stars we use them for catharine whells and when i use them for round stars does not burn

Edited July 19, 2011 by gordems

[allrocketspsl]

So will I get a decent slow gold strobe if I replace MgAl in Albert's formula with 325 mesh atomised Al?

 

I recently downloaded the episode. The composition comes out to be(if they didn't lie to the audience) :

 

KNO₃ ---------------------48.29

S----------------------------19.51

MgAl-----------------------9.82

C----------------------------9.755

NaHCO₃------------------7.85

Dextrin---------------------4.88

 

The percentages look okay?

 

that looked as good as Al,I know the pro's know but I know that they will stretch what they can and get away with,winokurs to me a super novice look as good as Al's gold strobes.Ive had pink and real gold looking winokurs,J

Edited July 31, 2011 by allrocketspsl

[billofca]

Here is my own formula for Gold Twinklers and is close to a real strobe effect.

 

49% Potassium Nitrate

10% Charcoal, air float

6% Sulfur

8% Aluminum, atomized, 200 mesh

11% Sodium Oxalate

5% Dextrin

 

Dampen with water, make into 1/2" stars, round, cut, or pressed

 

Bill Ofca