Red Glitter

[BJV]

Hi All,

I just saw a video on Pyorbin today showing

Red Glitter. Anyone have any idea what this

formula is??

Thanks

BJV

[Cookieman]

Hi All,

I just saw a video on Pyorbin today showing

Red Glitter. Anyone have any idea what this

formula is??

Thanks

BJV

 

 

Are you talking about this one? Someone was asking about the same one on the glitter/strobe thread.link

[dagabu]

Anyka,

 

I am not picking on you but it would be helpful to post all comps in parts and not percentages or grams (measurement). It makes it easier for us to extrapolate the numbers to suit and amount we want to make.'

 

Example:

-

47 potassium nitrate

19 antimony trisulfide [Chineese Needle]--this makes it glitter

14 strontium carbonate--makes it red

10 sulphur

10 fine mesh charcoal

9 atomized aluminum--the finer the mesh..the better

5 dextrin

2 parlon

-

bind with water for stars

 

Also, lets use the phrase "airfloat" to denote fine mesh charcoal and lets explain the process for the mixing and prep. Also, any notes you have would be helpful as well.

 

Are you sure that you want 19 parts of antimony in this comp?

Edited August 3, 2010 by dagabu

[BJV]

Are you talking about this one? Someone was asking about the same one on the glitter/strobe thread.link

 

Thanks, that's the one Red Glitter.

BJV

[dagabu]

Gothca!!

 

No, not worried about danger but it is a waste of Antimony to have so much. At 16% overall, it is a devil to light as it sucks all of the heat away from the comps and with the aluminum, it would make it darn near impossible to get going.

 

You only have 45% oxidizer and 60% fuel, most of which is metal.

 

If you want 80 mesh, just post that you want 80 mesh, we all get what it implies.

 

Oh, add another 2% dextrin, the strontium carbonate and metals will not hold together with only 2% of dex.

Edited August 3, 2010 by dagabu

[qwezxc12]

yes.

...to be honest..

i just made it up..i never yet tried to see its results.

 

What?

 

Your initial post at 2:50 merely said "Try this"... Um, it's *really* bad form to rattle off a formula like you did, when you've NEVER actually made it. Especially when there are so many inconsistencies in it and true colored glitters are a freaking holy grail.

 

An observation: you're proposing using -80mesh Charcoal in a glitter? At -80mesh, you'd probably be producing more of a twinkler/flitter/coarse tailed streamer. Read up on charcoal usage in glitters in Lloyd Scott Oglesby's "GLITTER, Chemistry and Techniques" for a start. Have you ever wondered why Robert Winokur's 40 glitter formulas specify airfloat not coarser mesh charcoal?

 

Before you post "formulas", you have an obligation to actually either present them as a guess FIRST, have actual experience with them, or cite the source (in the case that they are not yours). There are a lot of inexperienced people who come here to learn - don't post misleading things. At best they will be frustrated, at worst, someone may get hurt.

Edited August 3, 2010 by qwezxc12

[Mumbles]

As I posted in the other thread I think all of that Sb2S3 is going to present an issue. It loves to burn white, and I have a feeling it will wash out or overpower and red color you can generate. With that amount of Sb2S3 and SrCO3, you might need to fire it from orbit to see all the glitters. Even 4% SrCO3 gives a hell of a delay. If you want more information on these try looking up various pimpinella, pampanino, pampanella, etc type mixes.

 

I'll probably merge everything from the other thread into this one.

[Ventsi]

BJV, If you are looking to make an actual red glitter, I'm gonna say its a no go. The ones you see are often more or less slightly pink/orange and the camera's make them look redder. If you are trying to get to something REALLY red I suggest you try a matrix comet. Basically a bunch of small stars(in your case strobe) embedded into a fast burning comet(BP,KP whatever.) I'm still trying to make an "American Glitter" Comet which will be a large comet embedded with white, red and blue strobe stars.

 

 

[optimus]

14g strontium carbonate--makes it red

 

You sure about that?

 

There really is no point posting an untested formula you just made up. This will not produce a red glitter.

[portfire]

Indeed, and why is Parlon in there

[Cookieman]

BJV, If you are looking to make an actual red glitter, I'm gonna say its a no go. The ones you see are often more or less slightly pink/orange and the camera's make them look redder. If you are trying to get to something REALLY red I suggest you try a matrix comet. Basically a bunch of small stars(in your case strobe) embedded into a fast burning comet(BP,KP whatever.) I'm still trying to make an "American Glitter" Comet which will be a large comet embedded with white, red and blue strobe stars.

 

 

 

 

I've been working with this comp. for a few weeks now trying to get a red glitter but all I get is frustration with either a white flash or washed out colour and/or no glitter at all. It is a Winokur #1 comp. So far I've tried 25/25, 20/30 on the nitrates, and increasing the Mg/Al and decreasing the KNo3. So far, nothing but junk stars.

 

 

Potassium nitrate.............35

Strontium nitrate...............15

charcoal (airfloat)...............13

Magnalium -200m...............12

Sulfur...................................10

Antimony Trisulfide...............10

Dextrin..................................5

Edited August 4, 2010 by Cookieman

[AdmiralDonSnider]

I´m definately not up to date on this effect, but from what I read I suggest:

 

- the use of strontium or lithium oxalate rather than carbonate, which will just make a delay

- the use of low sodium chems and preferably: washed charcoal

 

A matrix approach was the first thing that came to my mind, as already suggested. Colored microstars, preferably parlon or NC bound as e.g. red strobes are anyway will likely give a much more pleasant red.

 

Now has anyone ever experimented with different oxalates, e.g. Sr, Ca? I´d really love to hear conclusions.

[portfire]

I have Strontium Oxalate. Now, I'm not too good at designing formulas but if anyone has any suggestions I'll be willing to give them ago (within reason[no names]) and post my findings

 

Dean

[optimus]

I have Strontium Oxalate. Now, I'm not too good at designing formulas but if anyone has any suggestions I'll be willing to give them ago (within reason[no names]) and post my findings

 

Dean

 

Just throwing this out there...

 

Name: A1 Perchlorate Glitter

Source: Baron Eric von Baum (Firemaker: Volume 1, Issue 1, Dec 1996)

 

47.65% Potassium Perchlorate

19.02% Sulfur

13.31% Sodium Bicarbonate

9.51% Charcoal (airfloat)

6.71% Aluminium (-325 mesh, spherical)

3.80% Dextrin

 

So, swap the Bicarbonate for Strontium Oxalate and the Al for MgAl? Seems almost too easy, but I can't think of anything obvious suggesting it wouldn't work...

 

According to Clive Jennings-White, Eric tried Strontium Carbonate in the above formula which didn't produce coloured glitter. He also mentions Lithium Oxalate did not produce a glitter atall. No mention of trying MgAl or Strontium Oxalate though. Lithium Oxalate and Strontium Carbonate are amongst the "materials not yet found to produce coloured glitter" table in the J-pyro book, but no detail is given as to what other chems were used, so I believe this could be an avenue worth persuing.

 

The notes for this can be found on Alan's page here. Obviously due to the high sulphur content extra care must be taken, and pure chems/washed charcoal would be worth thinking about.

[Mumbles]

If you want, this is the educate guess at a formula I made in the other thread if you want. You could swap out the carbonate for the oxalate.

 

KNO3 - 35

Sr(NO3)2 - 20

MgAl - 11

Charcoal - 10

Sulfur - 15

SrCO3 - 5

Dextrin - 4

 

I still haven't heard yay or nay from anyone if Sr(NO3)2 can enhance glitters like barium nitrate can. Honestly, I think things are getting ahead of themselves. Perhaps we should take it 1 step at a time to make sure these chemicals don't kill the effect. Maybe trying something containing SrCO3 and subbing in SrOx to see the effect would be the best first bet.

[portfire]

Thanks chaps. I'll be giving these ago next week, it is very interesting. Mumbles, I'll be altering one variable at a time anyway.(it's the only way in pyro) Whats your thoughts on using 70/30 MgAl in glitters?

[optimus]

If you want, this is the educate guess at a formula I made in the other thread if you want. You could swap out the carbonate for the oxalate.

 

KNO3 - 35

Sr(NO3)2 - 20

MgAl - 11

Charcoal - 10

Sulfur - 15

SrCO3 - 5

Dextrin - 4

 

That's very similar to what I was trying a while back (with poor results), except I never thought to leave out the Antimony Trisulfide and up the Sulphur content. Certainly worth trying.

 

I agree that it'd be best to take this one step at a time, but the modification of the Perchlorate glitter has been at the back of my head for quite a while. Seems like there would be sufficient chlorine around to allow for some colour.

[Mumbles]

The paper itself cautions that using SrCO3 in place of the sodium bicarb in the formulas wont produce any glitters, rather "red electrics" what ever that means. I tried it once, and the comets didn't light out of the gun of course. It also says that MgAl wont work.

[Mumbles]

For the last time, see the first part of this post. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/3884-pretty-star/page__view__findpost__p__66262

[TheEskimo]

A video would be nice. As for testing it in a fountain, could you test it as an actual star? Compositions can look and behave a lot differently once bound and shot through the air.

You may also wish to check out the "Edit" button, wherein one can alter previous posts without having to add new posts.

[apcqazwsx]

sulphur [in a way is almost an oxidizer]

 

Can someone explain that?

[Mumbles]

Don't worry, she's just making broad vaguely true statements.

 

In certain compositions, sulfur can act as an oxidizer. If you think about it, sulfur is directly under oxygen on the periodic table, they can behave very similarly. Things such as Zinc/Sulfur are places in which sulfur acts as the oxidizer. Depending on what glitter school of thought you belong to, molten potassium sulfide is believed to react with aluminum after a delay to make the flashes in a glitter tail. In general, it is formed from decomposition of the sulfate, so at no point does sulfur (ingredient) act as an oxidizer, but sulfur (the element) at some point does act as an oxidizer.

[Peret]

I think you should properly call it a "sulfidizer"! It is, though, a very reactive element. A great many non-ferrous metal ores are found as sulfides, far more common than oxides, and they can be very difficult to reduce because they're so strongly bonded. Silver sulfide is particularly difficult.

[dagabu]

[Mumbles]

Oxygen can serve as a reducing agent to, but that doesn't make your reply any more helpful.