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Lactose Blue or Conkling Blue?


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#41 LambentPyro

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 01:19 PM

Any updates on that batch Nate?
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#42 nater

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 05:37 AM

They are dry but still not primed. Work and other obligations have been keeping me away from these experiments the past few weeks. Too many 12 hour shifts have turned into 15 or 16 hours and the nature of the days has left me more drained to the point where working on pyro becomes dangerous.


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#43 LambentPyro

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:51 PM

Fair enough, keep me posted with any updates please.
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#44 nater

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 11:04 PM

I lit one today, it was a bit pale on the ground, but bluer and no red tip to the flame.  It is promising, so I will make a larger batch to make a shell out of and compare with the other formula and see how they look.  Currently my favorite blue is the Hardt Blue #6 as it is published and the modifications made to G. Smith's Blue Parlon Star.


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#45 LambentPyro

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:19 PM

That has Hexamine, right?
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#46 nater

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:35 AM

Yes, it uses hexamine.  Here is the formula I used, and am currently calling Blue #1 for my own tests:

 

Potassium Perchlorate: 63

Black Copper Oxide: 12

Phenolic Resin: 6

Hexamine: 5

Saran: 15

 

The original formula from Gary Smith used Parlon, Red Gum and Copper Carbonate, each subbed 1:1 with Saran, Phenolic Resin and Black Copper Oxide respectively. Try it, and let me know what you think.


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#47 hindsight

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:34 AM

Yes, it uses hexamine.  Here is the formula I used, and am currently calling Blue #1 for my own tests:

 

Potassium Perchlorate: 63

Black Copper Oxide: 12

Phenolic Resin: 6

Hexamine: 5

Saran: 15

 

The original formula from Gary Smith used Parlon, Red Gum and Copper Carbonate, each subbed 1:1 with Saran, Phenolic Resin and Black Copper Oxide respectively. Try it, and let me know what you think.

This formula is similar to a Shimizu Blue formula in this thread http://www.amateurpy...color-in-stars/ where I replaced red gum with phenolic resin and put Saran (at your suggestion) in the place of Parlon. A major difference is the addition of hexamine. I am eager to try your version above. Assuming you used ethanol, that is the solvent I will use. Not planning to subject the mixture to heat, unless instructed otherwise, and will prime with Pinball. Thanks.



#48 nater

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:52 PM

Correct, I use alcohol as the solvent for stars bound with red gum or phenolic resin. I have not tried the method to cure the resin with hexamine in a drying box. I dry everything in a safe place in open air and have yet to build one.

I use pinball prime with a layer of green mix BP as the final layer. Step priming with star comp and BP or another hot prime should work fine.

Edited by nater, 12 July 2014 - 09:54 PM.

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#49 hindsight

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

Done. Despite fairly generous powdering with prime during the cutting process (as in Ned's tutorial), the stars seem to stick together a bit more than with previous star cutting. The main difference might be the Saran, although most people seem to complain about Parlon, no? I believe the same degree of wetting with ethanol was achieved compared to usual. Minor irritation, only. They may be dry tomorrow and ready to test.



#50 nater

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 08:00 PM

I have only cut one small batch of stars with phenolic resin, so my experience is too little to be of much help. They did stick together after cutting more than water / dextrin bound stars. Cutting stars with parlon / acetone is fairly sticky as well, but possible. I pump most of my stars, and the resin / alcohol pumps wonderfully.
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#51 hindsight

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:54 PM

I have only pumped phenolic bound stars twice and had the same experience--no problems. The  last 6 or 7 times using phenolic resin and parlon with ethanol, the star cutting went well. (Mumbles has already informed me that Parlon is not acting as binder with ethanol, yet it may still affect the consistency). It seems that substituting Saran this last time (and maybe the time before) there was a bit of sticking together of the stars. Anyway, the stars labeled "Nater Blue #1" were hard today and ready to light.  It was daylight and they were ignited on the ground.

The stars lit easily with just Pinball prime. There was a brief bit of orange followed by a nice pure, fairly light blue and just a brief bit of orange as it died.

This was only a ground test but, basically, a success. So far this is the  best formula for a phenolic bound blue star I have tested. Thanks for the formula.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by translator for correct English


Edited by hindsight, 14 July 2014 - 01:56 PM.


#52 rogeryermaw

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:38 PM

 

this is the blue formula i have been experimenting with.

 

65 perc

16 cupric chloride

10 sulfur

7 dex

10-12 parlon

 

i bind with acetone and cut with a (don't laugh) pizza cutter. step primed with hot prime containing aluiminum and finished with b.p. mill dust.

 

not the best but my family loved them on the 4th.


Edited by rogeryermaw, 31 July 2014 - 03:39 PM.


#53 rogeryermaw

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:41 PM

too late to edit...sorry. here is that blue star formula in a fountain.

 



#54 burningRNX

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:11 PM

Did you use CuCl2 or the green air oxidized stuff?

#55 rogeryermaw

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:48 PM

Copper(1)chloride. It's a bit too dim for aerial shells...at least on camera. Looks good in person though.

#56 abbykarim

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 03:03 PM

science question......selenium is a metal that burns with a very bright blue flame, it is used in glass colouring and medicines and anti dandruff shampoo, it also has a low boiling ponit and acts somewhat similar to sulfur,.i am very new to pyro making but i was wandering why i dont see selinium being used in any mixtues for blue

#57 rogeryermaw

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

according to Wiberg, Egon; Wiberg, Nils and Holleman, Arnold Frederick (2001). Inorganic chemistry,  (source wikipedia) it has seen use as a reducing agent in fireworking. however, over 400 microgram per day exposure is toxic. 400 micrograms is less than half a milligram so that comes off as pretty toxic to me.



#58 Peret

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:32 PM

Actually, 15ug/kilo body weight/day is considered the upper tolerable intake level at which you won't suffer any harm, so a figure of 400ug is way on the low side, child safe. Selenium is an essential trace element and you probably have 20 milligrams in your body right now. In fact you'll die if you don't get at least a little bit. It's an ingredient in multi-vitamins. Too much is definitely bad for you but it takes a lot of it to kill you, and you generally have to take it continuously for a long time.



#59 rogeryermaw

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:32 AM

only a guess on my part but perhaps that figure is for daily exposure and toxicity is cumulative?

 

my potassium benzoate and ammonium perchlorate should be here any day now! hoping to get some good results with a blue that has a similar burn rate to metal fueled red, green and white. also got some black copper oxide heading this way...that pihko #2 looks intensely gorgeous!


Edited by rogeryermaw, 19 August 2014 - 07:33 AM.


#60 Mumbles

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:40 AM

Toxicity aside, most of the compounds we'd experience from burning selenium are incredibly pungent and terrible smelling.  The descriptions of rotting horseraddish, rotting eggs, and leaking natural gas do not do it justice.  Fractions of a ppm of certain ones will clear a room. 


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