Sawdust to charcoal?

[jm82792]

I have sawdust that is as fine as airfloat charcoal since it's from ultra fine abrasives from German sanding equipment from my Dad.

Can I make charcoal for Epa(a really hard hardwood somewhat oily wood) sawdust that's ultra fine ?

My hope is that it's so fine I'll barely have to grind it up

since I still don't have a ball mill.

Edited December 21, 2009 by jm82792

[firetech]

I've heard yes and no. I'd say yes, but make sure that lid on the retort is tight, otherwise it'll pop off and ruin all your charc. The gasses will be jetting very hard.

[Gunzway]

Sawdust can be useful later for other purposes as well such as Saettine inserts and other things. I personally wouldn't bother since it's hardwood. You can pick up a 5kg back of it for less than $10. Will last a while too and don't have to muck around with sawdust.

[50AE]

It will not be often a fast charcoal, but because it's dust, it will have a superior surface area and it will cook very fast.

[Arthur]

How much abrasive material does it contain? Abrasive inerts in BP can sensitise it to pressure and impact.

 

Decent BP is best made from Pine or willow, Vine and Balsa will be fast to too fast, most hardwoods will make BP that is too slow to be usefull.

[jm82792]

I don't think very much,

it appears to be no abrasive material from the screens used to sand the floors.

I'm basically desperate for charcoal

since I want some decent stuff for Gerbs and such,

then some faster stuff to launch some small (a star from a mortar maybe small mines) charcoal streamers.

I still have a mortar and pestle since I have not built a ball mill(well it makes fast enough BP),

I tried grinding up some hardwood charcoal and it wasn't very effective,

so i though sawdust would be much easier.

 

However I have no tried a softer wood like pine,

maybe I'm better off trying that first then going to sawdust if I have to.

 

I might make some from the sawdust and see for the heck of it,

while I buy some pine since it's pretty cheap....

Edited December 21, 2009 by jm82792

[Richtee]

The problem you are likely to run into is the amount of oxygen contained in the dust. It might just all burn up, or at least end up as a high percentage of ash using the sawdust form.

 

What's so hard about cooking some wood? Or I used to get damned good results with "packing" paper or blank newsprint. Even printed works well.

 

And on edit: You do need a mill to make good BP. In my experience anyway.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Richtee

[Aquarius]

Try some pine or spruce. Chop it up with a axe, put it in a metal can and throw it in the fire. Lots of tutorials on this, it makes a (much) faster powder than BBQ charcoal.

But the real thing with improving BP is to use a efficient ballmill.

[Ventsi]

If you are really desperate try making your charcoal from either pine or newspaper. Both can be very easily powdered once charred and cooled. I can usually mash my pine charcoal between my fingers.

 

You could also try CIA style BP manufacture. Powder the sulfur and charcoal separately in your mortar and pestle and then CIA your ingredients.

[dagabu]

I have been using a lot of sawdust for charcoal and have found that there a few things to keep in mind before doing so. such as what was the base wood? Oak? Yellow Pine? White Pine?

 

The wood is so much more important then the size of the particles. I am in NO way disagreeing with any of you but am simply retelling my experiences with cooking charcoal this past year.

 

Sawdust is the same wood that you cut it from, the water content, sugars and cellulose are the same. There may be more O2 but that has never been an issue with me. There are some that say to not pack it down, others that say to pack it well and use a stick to make holes in the packed material, I have found none of that to be necessary, pack it in, leave an inch to the top for air movement, throw it on the fire and let it burn until the smoke no longer lights on fire or when it becomes smoke only and no steam.

 

Remove the retort and cover the hole with a nickle, let cool to the touch. DO NOT OPEN IT WHILE HOT!! You have been warned.

 

What you get is a fine charcoal powder that you will need to screen for different meshes. Ball mill until it will pass a 100 mesh screen, you will crush it finer later with KNO3 and S, no need to make it more messy right now.

 

If you were cutting White Pine, you will get the best sparking charcoal known to man! Larger mesh charcoal will burn for a long time and will hang in the air. This is what Palm stars are made from. Go make some, the worse that can happen is that you fail, maybe that is the best since you can come back and share what your experiences were.

 

Good luck and stay green

 

D

[dagabu]

You could also try CIA style BP manufacture. Powder the sulfur and charcoal separately in your mortar and pestle and then CIA your ingredients.

 

I hate to disagree but CIA is expensive, messy, dangerous (winter, closed rooms, alcohol fumes, heaters), messy, wasteful, messy and oh yea, messy.

 

A ball mill is great but a blade coffee grinder can be used to powder all of the chems, red gum and alcohol can be used to bind the comp. This is not only my experience but probably the single most experienced person alive today working and writing about fireworks experimentation, Ned Gorski. His definitive article about BP can be read for free on Skylighters web site.

 

Ball milling makes very reactive BP but why use overly reactive BP? If your BP compares with commercial BP, you have what you need, any more is hard on the guns.

 

IMHO

 

D

[Mumbles]

I'd say go ahead and make some. Whats the worst that can happen? Given your description, it sounds like it will be a decent sparking wood, which should make good gerbs and stars. You may have to use more if you want to use it as lift.

[jm82792]

Alright I'll get a large cookie tin,

add some holes, wire it shut well I'll read online before I start.

Okay well time is a wasting, I'll try to give it a shot tomorrow and get some white pine for sparks

 

It's Epi not EPA from my misspelling,

a rock hardwood like one of the hardest of them all.

 

It's extremely fine like I can compact it down to half it's size it's bag.

But I'll use some white pine and whatever else I can try.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabebuia

 

Thanks for the help I appreciate it

Edited December 22, 2009 by jm82792

[dagabu]

Alright I'll get a large cookie tin,

add some holes, wire it shut well I'll read online before I start.

 

NO!

 

Dont wire it shut

Only one 1/4" hole in the center of the lid

Make the fire small, cookie tins are thin and melt

 

Better

 

Get a cast iron pot from Harbor Freight

Cook it hot

Make a single 1/4" hole in the lid

 

D

Edited December 22, 2009 by dagabu

[Mumbles]

With the cookie tin, did you mean 1.4" or 1/4"? I suspect it was the latter.

[jm82792]

Harbor Freight ?

What's that ?

(I've heard of them but they don't exist here along with many stores)

 

I'll hit a thrift store and look for a battered metal pot(cast iron if I can) of some sort then drill a 1/4 inch hole in the lid.

Thanks Dagabu for saving me from a failure!

[scarbelly]

You can also try a metal paint can. The ones with pry off lids. You can usually buy clean ones from a hardware store, but if not I'm sure someone you know will have an old one with no paint left in it.

[dagabu]

You can also try a metal paint can. The ones with pry off lids. You can usually buy clean ones from a hardware store, but if not I'm sure someone you know will have an old one with no paint left in it.

 

You can cook a used paint can too, just be sure to cook all the paint out before using it (once it is cool) for charcoal.

 

Yes, it was 1/4", I fixed it Mumbles

 

Paint cans are made from plastic or steel. The steel ones have a high amount of carbon in them and resist the heat much better then a cookie tin which if they were still made form it, would be tin. Whatever cheap metal they use is crimped sealed and will open on a fire and spill your wood out. If the fire is too hot, it will just melt.

 

When we go camping in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, we burn our trash and cookie tins go into the fire too, they melt into a little puddle in the bottom of the ash the next morning and we bag it up and carry it out.

 

Good luck and try everything!

 

D

[Swede]

All sorts of good advice.

 

Paint cans definitely work, and you can usually buy them empty from a paint store. I'd rather go that route than try to use a paint can that once held paint.

 

There's some sort of plastic film inside, which will char, but it won't hurt the charcoal. I use an awl and simply punch about a half dozen holes that end up being maybe 2mm in dia. In the fire, the vent holes will jet gases, first steam, then volatile organics which will ignite. Move the can around a bit, get it evenly roasted, and when the flammable gases get very weak or cease, pull it.

 

You never want to wire or secure a retort, it may explode if the vent cannot work properly. Good luck, have fun.

[dagabu]

I use an awl and simply punch about a half dozen holes that end up being maybe 2mm in dia.

 

Swede, how do you seal the holes when the retort is cooling? Every vessel creates a vacuum when cooling, pickled eggs can be sucked into a beer bottle using a book of matches.

 

D

[Eric70]

I have no experience with this subject but here is a link to a charcoal making tutorial that might be helpful:

 

http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/Pyro/charcoal.htm

 

The tutorial is by a fellow named Phil.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Eric70

[TheSidewinder]

Steve LaDuke (I think it was him) has a method to use sawdust as the raw material. It uses a VERY simple "stirring rod" that's fed through the top lid of whatever container he uses.

 

Rod length is container-depth plus 6 inches. Externally, the rod just has the end 2 inches bent 90 degrees. Internally, he attached a metal "blade" of some type that was the width of container minus an inch or so. May have been as simple as brazing a piece of fairly narrow flat bar stock to the rod. Sounded like it, anyway.

 

During the burn period, he occasionally used a pliers to grab the end of the rod, lift and spin, push and spin, repeat. It kept the sawdust loose, and allowed the heat to get to all of it. Once the outgassing was done, he just put the container aside and tossed a shovel full of dirt on the lid to seal off the vents.

[Arthur]

The traditional answer to plugging the vent hole is to cover it with clay. A dab of earth should be just enough to let the pressure equalise but not let combustion air in to the charcoal as it cools. I've also heard that you should let the completed charcoal rest for 24 hours so that it is thoroughly cool and cannot re-ignite on access to air.

[Swede]

Swede, how do you seal the holes when the retort is cooling? Every vessel creates a vacuum when cooling, pickled eggs can be sucked into a beer bottle using a book of matches.

 

D

 

I don't do much... just place a pie pan or similar inverted over the top. Clay would probably work better. It is inevitable that some O2 is going to get in there during cooling unless you have a serious retort, so some ash will form regardless. I guess the idea is to minimize it and live with the ash.

 

Idea - set up a stainless tube "lance" and once out of the fire, gently feed argon from a welding bottle in there at a very low flow. That will continue to provide a tiny bit of positive pressure while the charcoal cools.

[dagabu]

I don't do much... just place a pie pan or similar inverted over the top. Clay would probably work better. It is inevitable that some O2 is going to get in there during cooling unless you have a serious retort, so some ash will form regardless. I guess the idea is to minimize it and live with the ash.

 

Idea - set up a stainless tube "lance" and once out of the fire, gently feed argon from a welding bottle in there at a very low flow. That will continue to provide a tiny bit of positive pressure while the charcoal cools.

 

Wet clay and mud is what the Maltese use to seal the 55 gallon cans they make charcoal in. I have video if anyone wants to see.

 

D