My home made dragon egg`s

[Mumbles]

Pumping or pressing is fine, but I wouldn't ram them. Something to keep in mind is that nitrates or other soluble chemicals can ruin the effect. You may want to make sure there is a good thick prime on them, or a light wax coating if you're going to be pumping them into damp comets.

[QED4803]

In a conversation w/Lloyd S. @ recpyro, he indicated that using an excess of Mg would cause an increase in frequency.

 

His thoughts were, there's more Mg "presented" at the surface of smaller mesh magnalium, and Mg is what's consumed during the smoulder phase, so "having too much of it (Mg) present results in a very rapid smoulder that spawns multiple little cracks that sound like an errant electric arc."

 

That "electric arc" is what I've been trying to recreate, I made it accidentally only once. I just got some Mg to use for this, but I havent tried adding a small percentage to the standard dragon egg comp to see what the results will be.

 

Lloyd had the same 'problem' w/a batch as I was trying to make on purpose. His problem turned out to be a batch of magnalium that was 65/35 Mg/Al instead of 50/50.

 

For Lloyd's entire exposition on DE go to http://www.wichitabu...ragonseggs.html.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm nuts, but it seems to me that there is also more Al presented in the case of finer mesh MgAl, so it seems that would be a wash, as Al fuels the "flash phase". In the above link it is mentioned (IIRC)that an excess of NC will cause larger eggs to pop in a single flash, so it seems cutting back the amount of NC might be a solution to your quest.

 

<edit> It appears my retention has suffered a bit in my dotage. The quote I was struggling to remember was as follows:

The magnalium for "regular" crackle is 200-mesh. The coarser the magnalium mesh, the longer the delay between ignition and explosion. At 80-mesh, it's about three seconds, and pieces as large as ¼" will explode in a single explosion. The finer the magnalium, the smaller the pieces must be. At 200-mesh, 1/8" dia. stars are about as large as you can make them. Otherwise, they just spall small chunks, and

the body remains un-reacted. <end quote>

 

So based on this half-remermbered info, it appears that finer mesh MgAl in larger eggs might be the magic bullet. Also consider Fuchs' pop glitter as an alternative.

 

Best of luck in your endeavor,

Smitty

Edited April 12, 2010 by QED4803

[xetap]

For Lloyd's entire exposition on DE go to http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/dragonseggs.html.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm nuts, but it seems to me that there is also more Al presented in the case of finer mesh MgAl, so it seems that would be a wash, as Al fuels the "flash phase". In the above link it is mentioned (IIRC)that an excess of NC will cause larger eggs to pop in a single flash, so it seems cutting back the amount of NC might be a solution to your quest,

Worth a try. I wish I could say I know exactly how much NC lacquer I use when I make dragon eggs- but I add it by eye, so there IS a chance the "electric" batch was light on the NC lacquer.

 

I've yet to use the added Mg in a batch. I'm just not convinced that this is the answer- it wasn't used in the original batch, that's for sure. So, I should be able to recreate the effect w/the same ingredients I used the first time.

 

Thanks for your input, BTW.

[jimbo]

my eggs are disapointing they go poof no report I used the pyroguide bismuth trioxide method with and without al, with 60-120mesh mgal and 325mesh mgal I just got some 200mesh do you think this will solve my problems also I can get bismuth sub carbonate what do you'se think I cant get red lead or anything will subcarbonate be better.cheers guys

[Mumbles]

Usually when I hear a description like yours it means there isn't enough nitrocellulose in there. If you're not priming them, that may help as well as it burns from all sides at once.

[pyrogeorge]

I made some dragon eggs today..(200gr)

 

75-Red lead

15-Mgnal

10-Copper oxide

 

Bind with NC

 

http://pyrobin.com/files/dsc02724.jpg

[Twotails]

I've been working on useing Antimony trisulfide in place of lead(i know sounds like it wont work?) it does work, needs some fine tuining(maby finer Mg/Al? im using 60 mesh) and a very hot prime. It seems interesting, like a small firecracker, exept higher pitch.

 

 

i'll continue working on it.

[baran420]

Twotails I am surprised that your Dragon eggs formula using Sb2S3 in place of red lead works. After all the dragon egg reaction is essentially a thermite reaction which is a redox reaction. I would have thought that by substituting 75 parts of the oxidiser with a reducing agent, the mixture would not work. If it works as you say then either the 10% copper oxide must be supplying the oxygen or it must be a different type of reaction? Obviously this is of interest to those unable to easily (cheaply) obtain lead oxide or bismuth compounds. I look forward to hearing the results from your experimentation.

 

Buy the way what happens if you substitute all the red lead for copper oxide?

 

Cheers,

 

Anton

 

 

[Mumbles]

It's known to work. There are a bunch of things that can work, it's just a matter of effectiveness. It never took off because lead was always cheaper, and antimony is FAR more toxic than lead. Inhalation is one of the most effective ways for it to get into your body.

[Twotails]

yeah, and it needs a realy hot flame anyway. the red lead is sofar definityly better untill i can FULLY work this out.

 

I would be interested to find a composition similer to dragons eggs that sizzles that has little or no lead or bismuth. i would love to make sizzling comets or self propelled small inserts. as well as sparklers. perferably an audiable sizzle. im makeing fireworks for a graduation party, so need somthing not normaly seen.

[pyrogeorge]

i use 325# and they are very loud as anyka said.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Jep, correct, thats where commercial rolled crackling is made of, and phenoic resin as the binder, no more than 2%.

[Mumbles]

Too bad that sodium carbonate has no use in pyro. It's too basic to be used with any metal fuel, and quite hygroscopic. On top of that I can find no reference whatsoever to it being used as a rat poison. It's already incredibly cheap as a pH increaser for pools anyway. Bismuth salts of all sorts have skyrocketed in price lately. Even for industrial waste like the subcarbonate and subnitrate, you'd be lucky to find it for less than 10-15lbs a pound and that is by the drum or pallet. Is nail polish remover actually any cheaper than real acetone? The last I checked (which was today), acetone was running around $11 per gallon.

[Ralph]

Nail polish remover is hugely expensive usually more than $5 for 50ml not to mention it contains perfumes and other addatives making it a stupid choice for pyro

[Gunzway]

Hmm. I bought nail polish remover recently from Publix. It cost me $1.99 for a pint. So, it is really not a bargain. However, it is very convenient. Let's see, milk, eggs, butter, bread, and, oh, a pint of nail polish remover is what I need. And, even though it may have other ingredients in it; it serves the purpose.

But, buying bismuth oxycarbonate for a price of $20 for 5 pounds is a pretty good deal!

And, buying really pure nitrocellulose lacquer for $15 a quart that will have to be diluted with acetone for pyro purposes that will equal a gallon is also a good deal.

And, opps, I meant not sodium carbonate; I meant to message calcium carbonate.

Sorry about that.

Stay safe,

Anyka

 

Perhaps I'm not searching hard enough, but I also cannot find any references for calcium carbonate being used as a rat poison. Not only that, but it's hardly used at all in pyrotechnics. Although, I did find BaCO3 being used in rat poisons, if that's what you mean.

[Gunzway]

No, I meant calcium carbonate. It is put into something a rat would eat. It then binds the rat's intestines. The rat dies because it can not eliminate its feces. It is non toxic; so it presents no harm to humans. Barium presents a health hazard to humans.

Calcium carbonate acts as a neutralizer and as a colour agent. I have used it a lot because I can purchase it for a very cheap price.

If you read some of my messages; you may be able to save a lot of money purchasing pyro-products.

I hate to waste money.

Stay safe

Anyka

LLL

 

Prove it with a source or a reference that CaCO3 is used as a rat poison, because I cannot find anything on it. What's your point about barium posing a health hazard to humans? It's still an ingredient of some rat poisons, it's not my decision. I'm just starting the facts here, Anyka. About calcium carbonate being used in pyrotechnics, it's not used very much. It's used in the Veline colour system and some other orange formulae, some adhesive compositions but you're not getting too much further than that (See: Passfire formula base). Nor is it exclusively needed for anything, you can make do without it quite easily. It would one of the last items on my list of chemical acquisition.

 

Since you love to talk about saving money and purchasing chemicals useful for pyrotechnics for cheaper prices at non-pyro vendors, I thought I'll let you know there's better/cheaper places to obtain CaCO3. You can acquire it from chalk, from pharmacies, from garden supply houses and it's used in antacids. (See: Perigrin, Tom. Introductory Practical Pyrotechnics).

You can also purchase it for some ridiculously low price from a ceramic shop. Much cheaper than you'll ever find it as a poison (if that's even the case).

[Ralph]

No, I meant calcium carbonate. It is put into something a rat would eat. It then binds the rat's intestines. The rat dies because it can not eliminate its feces. It is non toxic; so it presents no harm to humans. Barium presents a health hazard to humans.

Calcium carbonate acts as a neutralizer and as a colour agent. I have used it a lot because I can purchase it for a very cheap price.

If you read some of my messages; you may be able to save a lot of money purchasing pyro-products.

I hate to waste money.

Stay safe

Anyka

LLL

 

I know for a fact that barium compounds are used as rat poison generally barium carbonate which reacts with the hydrochloric acid in their stomach forming barium chloride. a similar reaction would occur with calcium were the calcium carbonate would form calcium chloride which would be easily expelled through the rats kidneys. why are we talking about biological functions of a rat on a pyrotechnic forum Im not sure

[Pretty green flame]

Calcium carbonate as rat poison, funny. If anything, it could be used as a filler in rat poison pellets but I doubt even that. The only thing connecting rats poison and calcium is Hypercalcemia but that's due to Vitamin D derivates causing calcium levels to rise and disrupt blood flow and cause other nasty things (Calcium compounds forms a crust in the veins and breathing paths). CaCO3 will not do this.

[Mumbles]

Calcium carbonate can be toxic. If it neutralizes all the acid in your stomach it can go and cause blockages as Anyka suggested. That being said it seems quite unlikely to be used as a rodenticide. I couldn't find any product using it as an active ingredient. It also doesn't explain why all the mice in my house didn't die when they got into my antacids one time.

[TheSidewinder]

OK, I just cleaned out more offtopic crap than I've had to in ages.

 

Everyone chill out. When you've done so, continue this thread. Keep things on-topic, avoid posting the same thing over and over, and no more personal attacks.

 

Failure to do so will earn continuing violators a short "vacation". Capiche?

 

Thank you.

[dagabu]

Are current commercial dragon eggs made with lead or bismuth?

[Mumbles]

Given that the come from China, my money would be on lead. I think most domestically manufactured dragon eggs are bismuth though.

[jimbo]

I've just made my best batch of dragons eggs yet,37.5 bismuth trioxide,37.5 copper oxide black,25 200mesh magnalium and I used exactly one 7.62x39 ex military ammo worth of smokeless powder for my n.c laquer per 10grams of d.e,works way better than any batch I made with pingpong ball n.c laquer,btw I like chicks who own guns and make fireworks

[Twotails]

So, for a sucessful D.E to work it needs: A metal Oxide, a higher activity metal(?), O2(released with the hot burn phase, used by the Al?) Some kind of fule to help build, and sustaine a "cooler" burn, and a few other kinks thrown into the works. Anyone have a formula(or idea) of one that dosent contain Lead, or Bismuth? I have made eggs with 60mesh MgAl, and like the results(both using copper oxide, and "regular" virson with lead) sharp, loud, but not easly lit(a nice thick coating of prime solves that) I would like just see what odd, or unique formulas there are, seeing as the Sb ones i made didnt work.

[Ralph]

I've just made my best batch of dragons eggs yet,37.5 bismuth trioxide,37.5 copper oxide black,25 200mesh magnalium and I used exactly one 7.62x39 ex military ammo worth of smokeless powder for my n.c laquer per 10grams of d.e,works way better than any batch I made with pingpong ball n.c laquer,btw I like chicks who own guns and make fireworks

 

so they worked well with 50 50 CuO to Bi2O3 ? never heard of that before