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My home made dragon egg`s


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#21 Pyro09

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:31 PM

I used selfmade MgAl, I just put it in my blademill and ran it through a sieve ( I don't know the exact mesh size, but should be around 100-120 mesh). It works fine!

#22 xetap

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 04:18 PM

Dragon eggs made w/ Al and Mg as separate elements added together did not produce a usable effect. The ignition was the same as usual, but had only a small crackle effect. Burned bright, obviously- but not as a dragon egg.

The mesh was very fine, dark pyro-fine, actually. In the same mesh, magnalium worked, although the reports were closely spaced together as might be expected from a mesh size finer than 200.

#23 Mumbles

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 04:39 PM

The original effect was made using a different alloy than 50/50. There are some mixes that use a few parts of atomized Al IIRC, that some claim to be louder. I have been under the impression that MgAl alloy is critical to the effect, but it can somewhat be tuned by the addition of small amounts of pure Mg or Al.
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#24 xetap

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 08:06 PM

In a conversation w/Lloyd S. @ recpyro, he indicated that using an excess of Mg would cause an increase in frequency.

His thoughts were, there's more Mg "presented" at the surface of smaller mesh magnalium, and Mg is what's consumed during the smoulder phase, so "having too much of it (Mg) present results in a very rapid smoulder that spawns multiple little cracks that sound like an errant electric arc."

That "electric arc" is what I've been trying to recreate, I made it accidentally only once. I just got some Mg to use for this, but I havent tried adding a small percentage to the standard dragon egg comp to see what the results will be.

Lloyd had the same 'problem' w/a batch as I was trying to make on purpose. His problem turned out to be a batch of magnalium that was 65/35 Mg/Al instead of 50/50.

#25 QED4803

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 10:41 PM

hello!


This is my home made dragon egg`s

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=G8Px_Wl8tvI



And here is my star mine D1 Glitter to D.Eggs :

http://www.youtube.c...u/1/MlCancj-fvA


Very nice! Was the D1 rolled on dragon rgg centers? Can anyone tell me if it's safe ro pump stars or gerbs w/ DE? Any special considerations or precautions?

#26 Mumbles

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 03:38 PM

Pumping or pressing is fine, but I wouldn't ram them. Something to keep in mind is that nitrates or other soluble chemicals can ruin the effect. You may want to make sure there is a good thick prime on them, or a light wax coating if you're going to be pumping them into damp comets.
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#27 QED4803

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:50 PM

In a conversation w/Lloyd S. @ recpyro, he indicated that using an excess of Mg would cause an increase in frequency.

His thoughts were, there's more Mg "presented" at the surface of smaller mesh magnalium, and Mg is what's consumed during the smoulder phase, so "having too much of it (Mg) present results in a very rapid smoulder that spawns multiple little cracks that sound like an errant electric arc."

That "electric arc" is what I've been trying to recreate, I made it accidentally only once. I just got some Mg to use for this, but I havent tried adding a small percentage to the standard dragon egg comp to see what the results will be.

Lloyd had the same 'problem' w/a batch as I was trying to make on purpose. His problem turned out to be a batch of magnalium that was 65/35 Mg/Al instead of 50/50.


For Lloyd's entire exposition on DE go to http://www.wichitabu...ragonseggs.html.

Someone please correct me if I'm nuts, but it seems to me that there is also more Al presented in the case of finer mesh MgAl, so it seems that would be a wash, as Al fuels the "flash phase". In the above link it is mentioned (IIRC)that an excess of NC will cause larger eggs to pop in a single flash, so it seems cutting back the amount of NC might be a solution to your quest.

<edit> It appears my retention has suffered a bit in my dotage. The quote I was struggling to remember was as follows:
The magnalium for "regular" crackle is 200-mesh. The coarser the magnalium mesh, the longer the delay between ignition and explosion. At 80-mesh, it's about three seconds, and pieces as large as ¼" will explode in a single explosion. The finer the magnalium, the smaller the pieces must be. At 200-mesh, 1/8" dia. stars are about as large as you can make them. Otherwise, they just spall small chunks, and
the body remains un-reacted. <end quote>

So based on this half-remermbered info, it appears that finer mesh MgAl in larger eggs might be the magic bullet. Also consider Fuchs' pop glitter as an alternative.

Best of luck in your endeavor,
Smitty

Edited by QED4803, 11 April 2010 - 09:53 PM.


#28 xetap

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 09:17 PM

For Lloyd's entire exposition on DE go to http://www.wichitabu...ragonseggs.html.

Someone please correct me if I'm nuts, but it seems to me that there is also more Al presented in the case of finer mesh MgAl, so it seems that would be a wash, as Al fuels the "flash phase". In the above link it is mentioned (IIRC)that an excess of NC will cause larger eggs to pop in a single flash, so it seems cutting back the amount of NC might be a solution to your quest,

Worth a try. I wish I could say I know exactly how much NC lacquer I use when I make dragon eggs- but I add it by eye, so there IS a chance the "electric" batch was light on the NC lacquer.

I've yet to use the added Mg in a batch. I'm just not convinced that this is the answer- it wasn't used in the original batch, that's for sure. So, I should be able to recreate the effect w/the same ingredients I used the first time.

Thanks for your input, BTW. :excl:

#29 jimbo

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:13 AM

my eggs are disapointing they go poof no report I used the pyroguide bismuth trioxide method with and without al, with 60-120mesh mgal and 325mesh mgal I just got some 200mesh do you think this will solve my problems also I can get bismuth sub carbonate what do you'se think I cant get red lead or anything will subcarbonate be better.cheers guys
katters australia party

#30 Mumbles

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 04:40 PM

Usually when I hear a description like yours it means there isn't enough nitrocellulose in there. If you're not priming them, that may help as well as it burns from all sides at once.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#31 pyrogeorge

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:19 AM

I made some dragon eggs today..(200gr)

75-Red lead
15-Mgnal
10-Copper oxide

Bind with NC

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#32 Twotails

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 08:52 PM

I've been working on useing Antimony trisulfide in place of lead(i know sounds like it wont work?) it does work, needs some fine tuining(maby finer Mg/Al? im using 60 mesh) and a very hot prime. It seems interesting, like a small firecracker, exept higher pitch.


i'll continue working on it.
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#33 baran420

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 04:51 AM

Twotails I am surprised that your Dragon eggs formula using Sb2S3 in place of red lead works. After all the dragon egg reaction is essentially a thermite reaction which is a redox reaction. I would have thought that by substituting 75 parts of the oxidiser with a reducing agent, the mixture would not work. If it works as you say then either the 10% copper oxide must be supplying the oxygen or it must be a different type of reaction? Obviously this is of interest to those unable to easily (cheaply) obtain lead oxide or bismuth compounds. I look forward to hearing the results from your experimentation.

Buy the way what happens if you substitute all the red lead for copper oxide?

Cheers,

Anton



#34 Mumbles

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:27 AM

It's known to work. There are a bunch of things that can work, it's just a matter of effectiveness. It never took off because lead was always cheaper, and antimony is FAR more toxic than lead. Inhalation is one of the most effective ways for it to get into your body.
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Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#35 Twotails

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 07:31 PM

yeah, and it needs a realy hot flame anyway. the red lead is sofar definityly better untill i can FULLY work this out.

I would be interested to find a composition similer to dragons eggs that sizzles that has little or no lead or bismuth. i would love to make sizzling comets or self propelled small inserts. as well as sparklers. perferably an audiable sizzle. im makeing fireworks for a graduation party, so need somthing not normaly seen.
"Life improves slowly and goes wrong fast, and only catastrophe is clearly visible." Edward Teller

#36 pyrogeorge

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:06 AM

i use 325# and they are very loud as anyka said.

#37 FREAKYDUTCHMEN

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 07:53 AM

Jep, correct, thats where commercial rolled crackling is made of, and phenoic resin as the binder, no more than 2%.

#38 Mumbles

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:08 AM

Too bad that sodium carbonate has no use in pyro. It's too basic to be used with any metal fuel, and quite hygroscopic. On top of that I can find no reference whatsoever to it being used as a rat poison. It's already incredibly cheap as a pH increaser for pools anyway. Bismuth salts of all sorts have skyrocketed in price lately. Even for industrial waste like the subcarbonate and subnitrate, you'd be lucky to find it for less than 10-15lbs a pound and that is by the drum or pallet. Is nail polish remover actually any cheaper than real acetone? The last I checked (which was today), acetone was running around $11 per gallon.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#39 Ralph

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:31 AM

Nail polish remover is hugely expensive usually more than $5 for 50ml not to mention it contains perfumes and other addatives making it a stupid choice for pyro
The day you willing put a price on another man's life, is the day you sell your soul


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#40 Gunzway

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 03:00 AM

Hmm. I bought nail polish remover recently from Publix. It cost me $1.99 for a pint. So, it is really not a bargain. However, it is very convenient. Let's see, milk, eggs, butter, bread, and, oh, a pint of nail polish remover is what I need. And, even though it may have other ingredients in it; it serves the purpose.
But, buying bismuth oxycarbonate for a price of $20 for 5 pounds is a pretty good deal!
And, buying really pure nitrocellulose lacquer for $15 a quart that will have to be diluted with acetone for pyro purposes that will equal a gallon is also a good deal.
And, opps, I meant not sodium carbonate; I meant to message calcium carbonate.
Sorry about that.
Stay safe,
Anyka


Perhaps I'm not searching hard enough, but I also cannot find any references for calcium carbonate being used as a rat poison. Not only that, but it's hardly used at all in pyrotechnics. Although, I did find BaCO3 being used in rat poisons, if that's what you mean.




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