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#1 Updup

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:18 PM

Black powder information

How to make it: first you'll need a good scale, accurate to at least .1 grams, then, weigh out the three materials you need like the chart below, the parts are my weight which is why a scale is important to good black powder.

Potassium nitrate: 75

Charcoal: 15

Sulphur: 10


Charcoal is important, if it's not high quality your powder wont be as fast but will still be serviceable, the best wood seems to be willow, some people have said alder works good too, I personally have had good luck with pine. Once you have a high quality charcoal and you've mixed up all the ingredients, you need to put it in a ball mill to grind it up.

Ball Mill: This is necessary for black powder, you can but small ones for $50, however these are very bad and don't tend to run at the requierd speed and will break at some point, the best thing to do in invest in a good mill from the beginning, this will save you money in the long run, or you can try and save money by making your own ball mill, as many people have done Normally, it ends up not saving you much money if you don't have all the stuff on hand. The larger the diameter of your drum the faster you can make high quality powder, as far as speed goes, for a smaller barrel of about 3-4" in diameter 90-105 rpm works effetely, a larger drum like 5-6" will do well at 70-85 rpm.

You can also mill each item separately and then screen all the stuff together about three times. if you just choose to mill everything together, you should add 5% dextirn in the last half hour of milling.


It should be a very fine powder, much finer than powdered sugar, now the next step depends on what you want to use it for, for lifting shells, general use, star guns, and mini shell breaks, you want to granulate it, granulating is basically turning it into very small chunks, I know this seems pointless because you just spent 6 hours waiting to get it in to this nice powder, but what granulating it does is when its packed together it leaves little gaps in between each little "granule" which lets the flame pass though lighting all the powder at once, if it's not granulated and packed together the flame can't get through and only burns form one end to the other, and makes it slower.

Granulating: get your very fine black powder ready in a bowl, then mix together 25% isopropyl alcohol and 75% water and add it to a spary bottle, spray your black powder with your water/alcohol mix until it will clump together, if it clayish than its too wet, it shouldn't look shiny, if it is, it's also too wet. For the last step in granulating your black powder you'll need a screen or a tea strainer, have a few pieces of newspaper below your tea strainer and push your black powder ball though the strainer/screen, it should drop out on the wax paper about the size of table salt, then just wait 14-28 hours (depending on your granulating size) for it to dry and your done.

If you plan on using your black powder to break shells larger 3" and up, you need to make black powder coated rice hulls; basically, you wet your black powder with the same mix you use for granulating it but add more, so your black powder forms a slurry and wash you rice hulls in this slurry and leave in the sun to dry. You can use dried crumbled corn cob, puffed rice, and many cereals in place of rice hulls.



Tips and tricks

The longer you mill, the faster your powder, up to about 8 hours, then, it really dosnt make a diffrence.

the better your charcoal the faster your BP.

Granulate with dextrin.

Make sure your scale is accurate to at least .1 grams

If your charcoal is not easy to crush, it's not done.

When milling fill your jar with about 50% media, and then about 25% black powder

Have fun

Stay safe!

If you have more tips that you use, please comment, I'd love to add them to the post

And I'll try and get pictures coming soon.

Thanks to Dagabu for helping correct some of my mistakes, and more corrections are helpful and accepted.


Edited by Updup, 15 October 2009 - 06:35 PM.

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#2 homebrewed77

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:38 PM

Nice Tut..Just one problem though..Dagabu..Corned need's to be pressed to 1.7g/cc...just rubbed over a screen would be bound pulvarone...LOL I think I may have misunderstood ya! That mesh is good for sizing corned..Is that what you meant?

Edited by homebrewed77, 15 October 2009 - 05:40 PM.


#3 Updup

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:37 PM

Thanks, i did mess up on some things, however, they have been corrected, if you see more please tell me [=
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#4 homebrewed77

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:03 PM

Thanks, i did mess up on some things, however, they have been corrected, if you see more please tell me [=



Hey so far so good! Awsome TUT..There hasnt been one in a long time now! And it's about time someone added one lol...So Kudo's to ya! (And pancake's..to easy..lol) But Yummy!

Edited by homebrewed77, 15 October 2009 - 07:05 PM.


#5 Mumbles

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:23 PM

Dagabu, blade pulverizing does work. It's how it's made for the military. Also Goex doesn't mill the materials together in a ball mill, just a wheel mill which kind of squeezes the chems together for a while.

I'll see what I can do about getting more suggestions about the above tutorial, but I don't have a lot of time right now.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#6 NightHawkInLight

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:54 PM

By the phrasing I suspect you used the tutorial on my website as a reference. Go ahead and take any of that information you like to be used here. The more tutorials on APC, the better.

#7 Updup

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:16 PM

By the phrasing I suspect you used the tutorial on my website as a reference. Go ahead and take any of that information you like to be used here. The more tutorials on APC, the better.



Oh, no i didn't accually, i have read it all though :rolleyes: , you need to add more stuff, i've been waiting =P...
anyway, i'm SO MAD right now because some idiot on you tube flagged all my videos so they are deleted now and i'm banned for two week... knight hawk, how do you keep your TUT's on youtube?

i need to visit the vent post -.-
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#8 Updup

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:22 PM

Dagabu, blade pulverizing does work. It's how it's made for the military. Also Goex doesn't mill the materials together in a ball mill, just a wheel mill which kind of squeezes the chems together for a while.

I'll see what I can do about getting more suggestions about the above tutorial, but I don't have a lot of time right now.



Great thanks! i'm still new so i just got a bunch of information together and posted it here, also i posted this to get black powder tips as well as to cover the basics. i decided that i would focus on getting my black powder "perfect" (i know theres no such thing) before trying to make new things, once i get my ball mill back up and running i'll do more tests [=
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#9 dagabu

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:45 PM

Nice Tut..Just one problem though..Dagabu..Corned need's to be pressed to 1.7g/cc...just rubbed over a screen would be bound pulvarone...LOL I think I may have misunderstood ya! That mesh is good for sizing corned..Is that what you meant?


Check Ned Gorski's tutorial on BP, it is very reactive when ball milled and whetted. No pressing necessary. Pressing pucks accomplishes what integration in a ball mill or a wheel mill does (same thing), they both force the KNO3 into the carbon.

Mumbles, not only does Goex not ball mill, no commercial manufacturer does. Wheel milling is bay far safer but considering the wheel can put 20k of pressure per square inch on the platen without friction (the wheel is powered) or skipping, it can do the job in minutes not hours.

I am unfamiliar with any mill powder being used my any branch. In the NAVY, the powder was 1/2" to 1/4" in circumference and shiny with graphite. Never saw any in Iraq either.

D
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#10 scarbelly

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:54 PM

Dagabu: I think homebrewed77's comment was just a statement about terminology. There is no doubt that black powder can be very reactive without pressing, but he was just talking about the fact that when it is "Corned", that means that it is being broken down from pucks and separated by size, versus being "Riced" into pulverone.

This is my interpretation.
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#11 dagabu

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:50 PM

Oh, no i didn't accually, i have read it all though :rolleyes: , you need to add more stuff, i've been waiting =P...
anyway, i'm SO MAD right now because some idiot on you tube flagged all my videos so they are deleted now and i'm banned for two week... knight hawk, how do you keep your TUT's on youtube?

i need to visit the vent post -.-


Its OK, Utube sucks, try a real pyro site...

http://www.pyrobin.com/

Dave
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#12 Skycastlefish

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:45 AM

-Unless you live in the dessert, (or is that desert?) you will need a much longer dry time.


Ah, memories. One of my teachers (she was hot too) once told me "Dessert has two S's because you always want more dessert!" It's funny, 16 years later and I still remember that idiom. Though, my friends will tell you, I prefer camping in the desert over eating dessert. The smell of mesquite is better than chocolate. B)
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#13 scarbelly

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:55 AM

That's funny, my dad taught me that same thing like 8 years ago...
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

The grass is always greener on the other side; it's full of scorch marks on this side.

#14 Updup

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:08 AM

Can I PM you? Lets have a phone call and go over this.

Dave


Were you talking to me?
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#15 dagabu

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 10:00 AM

Were you talking to me?


Its all yours, go to it!! ;)

D
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#16 Updup

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 07:09 AM

Its OK, Utube sucks, try a real pyro site...

http://www.pyrobin.com/

Dave



Thanks i might try that...

Its all yours, go to it!! ;)

D



Cheers, one problem, the edit button has gone missing?
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#17 Mumbles

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 09:51 PM

Yes, there is a limit to how long the editing window is open.

Just a few corrections/suggestions

The mill time in you provide in the tips/tricks section is relative to how efficient your mill is. A rock tumbler will take 8-12, even 24 hours to get good products. Highly efficient mills can work as fast as 1 hour. If I had not seen this with my own eyes, I would have thought it was bull crap. Most will not be approaching this mark. 4 hours is about right for the nicer commercially available mills.

You cannot simply screen the fine ingredients. It will not yield as good of a product as milled. There are ways to produce some lift quality powder without milled products, but that needs it's own specialized discussion.

Table salt is far too fine for lift. Table salt is generally -40+70 mesh or so, which approximates meal D. Maybe slightly coarser, but still quite finer than ideal. 2FA is the standard for lift, which is -4+12 mesh. 4FA is better for smaller inserts and cake items, which is -12+20. An old mesh strainer or window screen can create a suitable lift for smaller items. Finding a way to screen the fines out is essential for reproductivity though. There is a pretty commonly available item, a metal splatter screen for frying bacon that is around 30 mesh. This should be good to remove the fines.

I don't think that method of making BP coated media will work for puffed rice cereal. I also don't find that method to work all that well. All I ever ended up with was a big mess that didn't break up well. My prefered method is to soak the hulls for 10-15 min in warm water, drain them well and stir in the BP. It all sticks pretty well without making a big ball of crap. I also leave .5 to 1 part on the side without dextrin that I add last. It really helps to keep the burst kernels from sticking together.
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Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

The sky is my canvas, and I have 2,113 pounds of powdered paint in the workshop.

#18 Updup

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 05:15 AM

Yes, there is a limit to how long the editing window is open.

Just a few corrections/suggestions

The mill time in you provide in the tips/tricks section is relative to how efficient your mill is. A rock tumbler will take 8-12, even 24 hours to get good products. Highly efficient mills can work as fast as 1 hour. If I had not seen this with my own eyes, I would have thought it was bull crap. Most will not be approaching this mark. 4 hours is about right for the nicer commercially available mills.

You cannot simply screen the fine ingredients. It will not yield as good of a product as milled. There are ways to produce some lift quality powder without milled products, but that needs it's own specialized discussion.

Table salt is far too fine for lift. Table salt is generally -40+70 mesh or so, which approximates meal D. Maybe slightly coarser, but still quite finer than ideal. 2FA is the standard for lift, which is -4+12 mesh. 4FA is better for smaller inserts and cake items, which is -12+20. An old mesh strainer or window screen can create a suitable lift for smaller items. Finding a way to screen the fines out is essential for reproductivity though. There is a pretty commonly available item, a metal splatter screen for frying bacon that is around 30 mesh. This should be good to remove the fines.

I don't think that method of making BP coated media will work for puffed rice cereal. I also don't find that method to work all that well. All I ever ended up with was a big mess that didn't break up well. My prefered method is to soak the hulls for 10-15 min in warm water, drain them well and stir in the BP. It all sticks pretty well without making a big ball of crap. I also leave .5 to 1 part on the side without dextrin that I add last. It really helps to keep the burst kernels from sticking together.



Great tips, if i wanted to add them, will i just have to make a new thread? The edit button would be more helpful if it didnt run away ;)
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#19 Mumbles

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:13 AM

Well, just because your editing window disappeared, doesn't mean everyone's has. Once all the appropriate suggestions/corrections have been made I can edit the first post.
Just so you guys quit asking, here is the link to the old forum. http://www.xsorbit2....forum/index.cgi

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#20 dagabu

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:24 AM

Well, just because your editing window disappeared, doesn't mean everyone's has. Once all the appropriate suggestions/corrections have been made I can edit the first post.


We are making coated rice hulls this weekend, do you want pictures for your tut?

D
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