Skycastlefish Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Although I am new to pyrotechnics I've been studying law for a long time. Here is a website that can help make the difference between continuing your hobby and being behind bars. Even if you feel like you know your rights you should check it out as a refresher. Things are always changing . Oh, it'll also help with traffic stops. http://flexyourrights.org/ PS This information only applies to US citizens (sorry, I'm not familiar with any other law.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Although I am new to pyrotechnics I've been studying law for a long time. Here is a website that can help make the difference between continuing your hobby and being behind bars. Even if you feel like you know your rights you should check it out as a refresher. Things are always changing . Oh, it'll also help with traffic stops. http://flexyourrights.org/ PS This information only applies to US citizens (sorry, I'm not familiar with any other law.) Actually..it does NOT apply. Look up "Patriot Act" That's the card they played on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Actually..it does NOT apply. Look up "Patriot Act" That's the card they played on me.Wait...What?! I'm gonna have to look up your story here and get the details. I've only heard of your encounter with the law second hand. That sounds damn shady. If cops can now search without warrant or evidence of a crime in plain sight...I gotta look into that more EDIT: Hmm I'm having a hard time finding any post giving the details of your unfortunate incident..Did you even post one? I heard that the cops were called because of a suspected break in? Edited September 25, 2009 by NightHawkInLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=46990 Sometimes I surprise myself with how I'm able to find these things. I searched for the word "door" in posts made by Richtee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=46990 Sometimes I surprise myself with how I'm able to find these things. I searched for the word "door" in posts made by Richtee.I had just found it and was typing up an edit to my post when I saw you were viewing the thread also...Anyway, here's the edit I was going to add to my post... Just found your post in the occasional depression thread and those following. Honestly I would have consulted a lawyer after that mess; sounds like there were multiple infringements of your rights! And who the hell was the initial cop anyway, that decided it was time to call the ATF when he saw a few 3" shells?! Seriously, I've had plenty of run ins with cops, and even the worst of them as been a far better experience than that. I've even had fireworks that were not permitted in the state of Michigan in my vehicle when pulled over, and the cop just looked at them, let me know they were illegal and sent me on my way. I even asked him if he was going to confiscate them and he let out a 'no' with a tone as if I had suggested he do something offensive. Wow, I'm stunned actually, and furious. I understand, who has the time or money for a court battle, but I would have done everything in my power to ruin the careers of anyone involved that did indeed break the law. As Frank R said, *paraphrase*: Who said it's illegal to leave my house door open? And they took your daughter out of school for questioning?! That turns my stomach. I would have fought that to the death. And then that gets the neighbors always looking in on what you're up to, probably think that new smoker is a nuke. If that isn't privacy rape...I'll bet a consult with a lawyer would reveal quite a few wrongs. What else can I say..Sorry man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Actually..it does NOT apply. Look up "Patriot Act" That's the card they played on me. I read NightHawks comment about your story just as I was about to post this. I'm going to read your post as soon as I'm finished. I'm sorry in advance if you got screwed by people who thought they were doing the right thing. Keep your head up soldier! The patriot act does grant federal agents more freedom to investigate potential threats to our nation. However, local law enforcement is not affected AT ALL by the patriot act. In other words, city and state police have no greater freedoms to invade your privacy than before the patriot act. None! This is a fact. There are very few fourth amendment free zones in the US. Any time you cross international borders or fly you automatically consent to a search because the brief invasion of privacy is justified by the peoples need for public safety. Other than that, a police officer cannot search your private property without your permission or a reasonable and articulable justification to convince a judge to issue a warrant (if a police officer asks to search your vehicle, it means he can't without your permission. Otherwise, he wouldn't ask, he would just do it.) Unfortunately, Judges have a lot on their plate and most don't have time to study how pyrotechnic arts work. This is why I recommend this website. There are documented accounts (possibly like yourself) of people completely within the law (transporting small amounts of unmixed thermite ingredients!) who were subjected to temporary jail detention/homes were searched/and computers confiscated for weeks. If we know our rights we can save a lot of time and hassle on both ourselves and government by exercising our rights. What you do with your private property is your business and your business only. Remember that! You do not have to prove you are innocent to own aluminum and rust. Keep your mouth shut and talk to a lawyer. The law is designed to protect the innocent. If you follow the advice on this website, you will most likely come out with your head above water. Keep on rocking in the free world! Skycastlefish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentacles Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Would just like to add the CLASSIC don't talk to cops lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE Short end of it is, talking to a cop can never help you in any way. It is not legally possible to tell the cops something and have it help you in court. And welcome to the forums, Skycastlefish - good to see another face, even if it is a potential future lawyer! ;P Edited September 25, 2009 by tentacles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Would just like to add the CLASSIC don't talk to cops lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE Short end of it is, talking to a cop can never help you in any way. It is not legally possible to tell the cops something and have it help you in court. And welcome to the forums, Skycastlefish - good to see another face, even if it is a potential future lawyer! ;P I am so glad to be here! Truly, I have learned so much from this forum. Excellent addition to the subject by the way - This is one of my favorite informative videos (after NightHawk's how to's, of course.) I always give law enforcement the same respect I would give any stranger - offering help and answering basic questions (after all, we're all looking out for each other,) but I firmly agree with this video. If a stranger starts asking me questions about where I'm going and if he can look through my car, papers and effects, well... I've got better things to do -- like being left alone! We're living in a time where it’s easy to feel guilty for not breaking any laws. I don’t mean come off as rude, but if I’m not breaking any laws then… I’m not breaking any laws, right? Sincerely,Skycastle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 I had just found it and was typing up an edit to my post when I saw you were viewing the thread also...Anyway, here's the edit I was going to add to my post... Just found your post in the occasional depression thread and those following. Honestly I would have consulted a lawyer after that mess; sounds like there were multiple infringements of your rights! And who the hell was the initial cop anyway, that decided it was time to call the ATF when he saw a few 3" shells?! Seriously, I've had plenty of run ins with cops, and even the worst of them as been a far better experience than that. I've even had fireworks that were not permitted in the state of Michigan in my vehicle when pulled over, and the cop just looked at them, let me know they were illegal and sent me on my way. I even asked him if he was going to confiscate them and he let out a 'no' with a tone as if I had suggested he do something offensive. Wow, I'm stunned actually, and furious. I understand, who has the time or money for a court battle, but I would have done everything in my power to ruin the careers of anyone involved that did indeed break the law. As Frank R said, *paraphrase*: Who said it's illegal to leave my house door open? And they took your daughter out of school for questioning?! That turns my stomach. I would have fought that to the death. And then that gets the neighbors always looking in on what you're up to, probably think that new smoker is a nuke. If that isn't privacy rape...I'll bet a consult with a lawyer would reveal quite a few wrongs. What else can I say..Sorry man. Yes...it IS a crock of crap. A compounding factor I had not mentioned is that I am a state licensed security contractor. I could not risk that, as it's my means of making a living. And IF I had put up a stink...I'm SURE that would have been on the table too. And my daughter was scared shitless. Not to mention the "social damage" and mental stress for someone so young. I DID call a lawyer, and once the Feds were in...yer "Achmed the Mad Terroist" untill they are satisfied otherwise by any means they deem neccessary. See "waterboarding" Heh. Sooo..I just bailed. Angry? Hell yes! Bitter? Fuckin' A. And really missing sky painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightHawkInLight Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Yes...it IS a crock of crap. A compounding factor I had not mentioned is that I am a state licensed security contractor. I could not risk that, as it's my means of making a living. And IF I had put up a stink...I'm SURE that would have been on the table too. And my daughter was scared shitless. Not to mention the "social damage" and mental stress for someone so young. I DID call a lawyer, and once the Feds were in...yer "Achmed the Mad Terroist" untill they are satisfied otherwise by any means they deem neccessary. See "waterboarding" Heh. Sooo..I just bailed. Angry? Hell yes! Bitter? in' A. And really missing sky painting.I understand...There's a lot more that could have been taken from you, even if you had won in court. Could have made some money and got some loose authorities in trouble, but could have lost your job. As well as being on the ATF/Feds/local authorities hit list for ruining their day. At least we know there's a good ATF agent in the area. pheww... Good to be over I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I might have mentioned this before, but my son had a run-in with the cops... We are a pretty conservative family, law & order, all that crap, but part of the deal is in totally defending your liberties and rights. The ACLU is the ultimate double-edged sword. Sometimes they drive me nuts, but I have to admit, more often than not, what they do is necessary. My boy was meeting a friend. They chose a church parking lot to meet. He's sitting there in his parked car, and a cop came along and decided he was a drug dealer. The cop tried every trick he knew to get my son to consent to a search. And cops can be VERY intimidating and persuasive. "I can have dogs here in 5 minutes." or "I can take you to jail for (insert some BS charge here) if you don't allow me to search. TRUST me, it will be better for all of us." 99.8% of people would cave in. He did not. He insisted "No search. You may NOT search my vehicle. I have done NOTHING wrong." The cop went away, frustrated. We had watched the ACLU video on searches by the police, and learned a lot from it. All my kids know to NEVER consent to a search of a vehicle or house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 "I can take you to jail for (insert some BS charge here) if you don't allow me to search. TRUST me, it will be better for all of us." 99.8% of people would cave in. He did not. He insisted "No search. You may NOT search my vehicle. I have done NOTHING wrong." The cop went away, frustrated. We had watched the ACLU video on searches by the police, and learned a lot from it. All my kids know to NEVER consent to a search of a vehicle or house. Congrats on the parenting skills and to your son for keeping his cool! Most people don’t seem to take that kind of pressure well, especially when we’re young. What a great thing to teach our kids - the rules of the world. I bet the "insert bs charge here" was "obstruction of justice." Police love that one because it sounds so threatening (and believable) that most people will just give up. I hope everyone knows I'm not trying to bash police officers. I respect law enforcement (including my cousin) and I’ve had several great encounters with the police (about 30 %. ) Seriously though, I believe most police officers are good people trying to do their job as best they can. My grandfather once told me “If your job is easy, then you’re not doing your job.” He also told me “the way the worlds going right now, someday people are gonna try to sell you cups of water.” So don’t make it too easy for officers to invade your privacy or they’ll forget all about it. It’s always good to remember that having nothing to hide does not mean you should have to surrender your privacy. That is why I like living in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It’s always good to remember that having nothing to hide does not mean you should have to surrender your privacy. That is why I like living in the US. Well said. I just wish the living in the US was more accurate. Or at least LE realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted September 30, 2009 Author Share Posted September 30, 2009 Well said. I just wish the living in the US was more accurate. Or at least LE realized that. I feel the same Ricktee. My focus of study in college was guitar and I vividly recollect my teacher (who was awesome, just not always correct like all of us) telling me there was never any reason to ever use the thumb of my fretting hand to hold down any strings. I said “what about this song” and played him a song I had written. He smiled and said “Well, that’s one of those songs where it works.” After reading your posts I think you did the right thing by not taking the issue further, as much as I hate saying it. It is one of those rare instances. I’m not quite convinced that you should abandon your hobby though. Being the unusual circumstances of your house being legally searched when you weren’t there and the fact that the officials apparently “over looked” a few things, you could have made it worse. However, if you were confronted with a request to search you’re home again, well, I hope you say “no thank you, have a nice day.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 However, if you were confronted with a request to search you’re home again, well, I hope you say “no thank you, have a nice day.” For sure. However I have a wife to consider. And she's had quite enough of storm troopers. And black footprints too ;{) Sometimes it's not about what you want, or even your rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimus Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Great advice – not always useful in practice though! I recently went to a festival, fully expecting to be searched. I knew exactly what powers the police had, having read the relavant legislation – this is in the UK... I told them I knew, but it didn’t stop them completely overstepping what they’re legally allowed to do and detaining me for hours while they photographed/videoed/interviewed me. And incase you’re wondering, yes, I was extremely polite and reasonable throughout. I didn’t feel confident to get into a fully blown argument with guys with bloody massive machine guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tentacles Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Optimus, I've heard about some of the crazy crap UK citizens are allowing these days. Absolutely unbelievable some of the crap your cops are allowed to do. Just hope you aren't a brazilian electrician! Edited October 9, 2009 by tentacles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventsi Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Just for the heck of it.If any of you skateboard you might know of a park/organization called The Berrics. Anywho some of you might find this video irrelevant or just plain dumb, but to me its just friggin' funny: There is a short clip at the beginning , sorry.http://theberrics.com/dailyopspost.php?postid=1439 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarbelly Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Lol, that was a great video. It definitely was relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just for the heck of it.If any of you skateboard you might know of a park/organization called The Berrics. Anywho some of you might find this video irrelevant or just plain dumb, but to me its just friggin' funny: There is a short clip at the beginning , sorry.http://theberrics.com/dailyopspost.php?postid=1439 Nice! I wouldn't shake no hands at no jakes though, yo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steps Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Bullshit government. In Australia soon they are passing laws to be searched without a warrant for no reason. A cop can just walk up to some random and legally search them. What gold the future holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycastlefish Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Bullshit government. In Australia soon they are passing laws to be searched without a warrant for no reason. A cop can just walk up to some random and legally search them. What gold the future holds. I'm sorry to hear that man. I always thought it would be awesome to live in Australia because I love reptiles, and lets face it, Australians are usually really damn nice. But I can't bring myself to even entertain the thought because the US caters to my "outside the box" hobbies. My philosophy is if a government doesn't allow a citizen to walk into a store and walk home with a gun, then that government has no respect for its people. Looks like I won't be moving Europe anytime soon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 But I can't bring myself to even entertain the thought because the US caters to my "outside the box" hobbies. I cannot find a link...but apparently 4 MSU students are facing federal charges in a mortar shell possession incident... so I hear. Nice. Fuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 They had to have been doing something dumb with it. Shooting shells out the window of a dorm room seems like a reasonable possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richtee Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 They had to have been doing something dumb with it. Shooting shells out the window of a dorm room seems like a reasonable possibility.Hear-say was they shot one off off campus, got spotted and were busted bringing the remainders back in? Heresay- still cannot find a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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