Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Fishing weights as ball mill media


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 scarbelly

scarbelly

    Pyrotechnician

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bay Area, California, USA
  • Interests:Pyro... obviously

Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:14 PM

I live in somewhat of a fishing town, and I want to know if fishing weights would be good for ball mill media. Are they pure enough, or too contaminated with other stuff? I also am not sure about price so it may not even be worth it.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

The grass is always greener on the other side; it's full of scorch marks on this side.

#2 Arthur

Arthur

    Firebreather

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,988 posts

Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:58 PM

Round balls af lead are what you need, so if they are round and lead then you wil be OK. Depends on the diameter too probably about 1/10 of the drum diameter is OK. Now these will wear so start on the big side, or use antimony hardened lead which does I think still occur in wheel balancing weights available from tyre shops.

#3 Gunzway

Gunzway

    Pyrotechnician

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 388 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 August 2009 - 01:04 AM

A large percentage of my media is fishing weights and they work fine. I can't see any significant change in size and I've been using them for about a year and a half or so. The price wasn't much of an issue and were definitely cheaper than my brass media. I can't remember specifics but I got like 200 1/2" weights for around $15 - $20 USD. You certainly could spend less money, but due to convenience and not being too much money it was good enough for me.

#4 TheSidewinder

TheSidewinder

    Firebreather

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,309 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Minne-snow-ta

Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:26 PM

Check the other "Ball Mill Media" threads here.

Pure lead is too soft, and you'll get significant wear (and contamination of your BP with Lead).

Use an alloy of lead that contains Antimony (preferred) or Tin.

I'm pretty sure fishing weights are almost pure Lead. *IF* so, I'm surprised you aren't getting significant wear, Gunzway.
  • Ubehage likes this
program: n: a magic spell cast upon computers, which turns user input into error messages. v: A pastime akin to beating one's head against a wall, but with fewer rewards and less personal satisfaction.

#5 scarbelly

scarbelly

    Pyrotechnician

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 321 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bay Area, California, USA
  • Interests:Pyro... obviously

Posted 29 August 2009 - 12:13 AM

Alright thanks guys. I was just checking to make sure they weren't made of some dangerous lead alloy that would be an issue. If I can find them cheap enough, I'll give 'em a go.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

The grass is always greener on the other side; it's full of scorch marks on this side.

#6 Ventsi

Ventsi

    Pyrotechnician

  • Donator - HE
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 796 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bay Area/Si Valley, California

Posted 29 August 2009 - 01:24 AM

There are also the types alloyed with nickel and chrome, they look shinier an I would exepect them to last longer. Gunzway, Is that what you have?
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
- Albert Einstein

#7 Gunzway

Gunzway

    Pyrotechnician

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 388 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2009 - 02:14 AM

There's no significant erosion at all, they still remain at 1/2" (or very close to) and when compared to my brass media which is at 1/2" as well; you can't see any difference. When I purchased them I do remember them being somewhat shiny, but now they are obviously tarnished. It's probably alloyed with some other metals, it didn't melt easy as well.

Posted Image

#8 KaBoom

KaBoom

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:49 PM

Lead fishing weights have always worked well for me...

#9 Twotails

Twotails

    Pyrotechnician

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 488 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Over there ----->
  • Interests:Pyrotechnics.

Posted 16 November 2009 - 05:46 PM

I use Lead Musket balls (forgot the size) but 2 packs of 50, plus tax cost me less than $20, i think, roughly $16.

But to keep on topic, i found a great deal at a yardsale a while ago. I got a container, loaded with nearly 50lbs of hardened lead fishing weights (the guy made them himself, origanaly from tire weights) so as soon as i get a chance, i'll make media with them
"Life improves slowly and goes wrong fast, and only catastrophe is clearly visible." Edward Teller

#10 dagabu

dagabu

    Grandmaster

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Up Nort

Posted 16 November 2009 - 08:05 PM

I use a few different medias in my jars, ceramic, stainless steel balls, lead filled copper and wheel weight lead balls. These are my best media for fast heavy crushing.

http://www.pyrobin.c...es/dsc_9566.jpg

D
Dave
 
PGI Member http://www.pgi.org
IPA Member http://www.iowapyro.com
 
"The art of fire is indeed the supreme art; for fire is at once the universal slave, the universal master."

#11 Yafmot

Yafmot

    Pyromaniac

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:No. Cal

Posted 25 November 2009 - 08:29 PM

Good idea, Dagabu. Did you pour the lead or swage it?

Also, for smaller jars, 00 Buck will work surprizingly well. And another idea I've got is to contact the makers of those "Hardcast" bullets & find out what their alloy is. If they won't tell me, I'll just tell them that I'll be happy to use my friend's chromatography and spectroscopy toys and find out that way. Or, alternately, ask 'em about bulk pricing and save the threats as a last resort (they also cast balls).

Yet another avenue is to check out a company by the name of Corbin (not to be confused with the motorcycle seats). They sell swaging presses and dies ranging from benchtop equipment to heavy, floor mounted setups. They also have dies for every type & caliber of bullet imaginable and, of course, round balls. They also have heavy metal powders, including Lead, Antimony and, yes, Tungsten. I don't know if Pb will alloy with W, or a Pb/Sb allot will do it with W, but if you're swaging it instead of melting, it doesn't matter. (Besides, if the W is starting to melt, the Pb & Sb are already vapor.) I've got a kilo of tungsten sitting aroud doing nothing, so maybe I should get some Pb/Sb alloy & try to keep it from segregating during casting. I've also got a 12 ton press, so maybe I should get a round ball die & try swaging some together. W is harder than Chinese arithmetic anyway, s maybe I could just use a little lead as a binder. Come to think of it, there's got to be someone who sells WC balls or cylinders out there somewhere. THAT would be the ultimate grinding media!

#12 50AE

50AE

    Firebreather

  • HE Qualified
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,307 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sofia/Bulgaria

Posted 27 November 2009 - 08:12 AM

4 months ago, I added fishing weights to my hardened lead media, because I changed the size of my jar and the original media wasn't enough to fill it properly.
Well, there is a noticeable wearing at the ends of the fishing weights. The ends are rounded. I will post a photo later.

#13 tailfeathers

tailfeathers

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 06:59 PM

I cast round balls out of wheel weights. I can get a 5 gallon bucket of them for about ten bucks. I have more time than money so this is something that helps me keep the costs down. The alloy is 8% antimony and is significantly harder than fishing weights.

#14 swervedriver

swervedriver

    Pyrotechnician

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 232 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:41 AM

I found this reference for alloying lead with tin and antimony-

Attached File  Hardness_of_Lead_Alloys.bmp   1.2MB   20 downloads

#15 TijM

TijM

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 11 January 2010 - 06:10 AM

Dagabu: if I were you I'd watch out with steel media, as they might spark. Milling seperate chems with them shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Also, if fishing weights don't work for you, marbles are easily aquired, cheap milling media. Not sure how they'd hold out in a large ballmill though.

TijM

Edited by TijM, 11 January 2010 - 06:12 AM.


#16 dagabu

dagabu

    Grandmaster

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Up Nort

Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:30 AM

Dagabu: if I were you I'd watch out with steel media, as they might spark. Milling seperate chems with them shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Also, if fishing weights don't work for you, marbles are easily aquired, cheap milling media. Not sure how they'd hold out in a large ballmill though.

TijM


Not steel, stainless steel, "non-sparking", “spark reduced”, "spark-resistant" or "spark-proof" are all designators with various metals and is true with stainless steel as well. 316 S31 stainless steel balls are spark resistant and work well in ball mills.

NEVER use glass in a ball mill, you need to do some research on materials my friend, you have your materials bass akwards and are going to hurt someone or yourself.

ALL metals can spark even brass and aluminum, the methods used to get them to spark are pretty extreme and you are unlikely to make it happen but it can.

We do not use aluminum rod for grinding media, do you know why that is?

We do not use Titanuim either, why is that?

Why would glass marbles not be good to use?

Edited by dagabu, 11 January 2010 - 10:32 AM.

Dave
 
PGI Member http://www.pgi.org
IPA Member http://www.iowapyro.com
 
"The art of fire is indeed the supreme art; for fire is at once the universal slave, the universal master."

#17 dagabu

dagabu

    Grandmaster

  • Donator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Up Nort

Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:03 AM

Good idea, Dagabu. Did you pour the lead or swage it?

Also, for smaller jars, 00 Buck will work surprizingly well. And another idea I've got is to contact the makers of those "Hardcast" bullets & find out what their alloy is. If they won't tell me, I'll just tell them that I'll be happy to use my friend's chromatography and spectroscopy toys and find out that way. Or, alternately, ask 'em about bulk pricing and save the threats as a last resort (they also cast balls).

Yet another avenue is to check out a company by the name of Corbin (not to be confused with the motorcycle seats). They sell swaging presses and dies ranging from benchtop equipment to heavy, floor mounted setups. They also have dies for every type & caliber of bullet imaginable and, of course, round balls. They also have heavy metal powders, including Lead, Antimony and, yes, Tungsten. I don't know if Pb will alloy with W, or a Pb/Sb allot will do it with W, but if you're swaging it instead of melting, it doesn't matter. (Besides, if the W is starting to melt, the Pb & Sb are already vapor.) I've got a kilo of tungsten sitting aroud doing nothing, so maybe I should get some Pb/Sb alloy & try to keep it from segregating during casting. I've also got a 12 ton press, so maybe I should get a round ball die & try swaging some together. W is harder than Chinese arithmetic anyway, s maybe I could just use a little lead as a binder. Come to think of it, there's got to be someone who sells WC balls or cylinders out there somewhere. THAT would be the ultimate grinding media!


Corbin is a little pricey for the hobbyist but I agree 100%, it would be the way to go for sure. Yafmot, I start with steel tabbed wheel weights, melt them down into ingots and let them cool slowly to room temp, establish the Brinell hardness and write it on the ingot.

I can gauge the hardness of the media based on that number knowing what percentage of tin, antimony and arsenic are normally used in wheel weights (5 percent antimony, .5 percent tin, .17 percent arsenic, and 94.3 percent lead)


I then gather enough ingots of the same Brinell to cast the media, cast, let air cool, heat treat and quench. I am looking for 34 - 36 on the Brinell scale when completed. After they are completely dried in the dryer, I swege each piece in a 4 ton arbor press to 3000 psi. This causes the pipe diameter to increase approx .005 and offers the tension of the jacket on the lead core keeping it all snug and tight.

Edited by dagabu, 11 January 2010 - 11:05 AM.

Dave
 
PGI Member http://www.pgi.org
IPA Member http://www.iowapyro.com
 
"The art of fire is indeed the supreme art; for fire is at once the universal slave, the universal master."

#18 Chewychewy

Chewychewy

    Smelt the smoke

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 03 August 2019 - 11:45 AM

I was the idiot using glass marbles like 5 r 6 years ago. I was working on my cast net one day and thought to myself" why not use these lead weights from an old net I was pull in apart to re make". Been using those lead weights for a good few years and still the same size. I mean I'm also working with a store bought rock tumbler so I only mill a like 3r4 ounces at a time and there's not alot of room so they can't drop very far. Might be why they're not destroyed yet.I'd imagine a big ball mill bringing the lead up higher and dropping them harder from a higher point would definitely do some wear n tear fast on some soft lead. Especially after a while of run time I'd think they would eventually start to get warm and soften from the impact/friction if any is created during the milling process. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm just thinking out loud here.

Edited by Chewychewy, 03 August 2019 - 11:48 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users