Humidity and how to prevent it from ruining chemicals

[NightHawkInLight]

Well I'm just about finished with my new workshop. It is in what used to be a pheasant coup. I have covered all walls and the floor with masonite sheets and just today patched the leaky roof. It will be a workshop for all of my projects, but my primary desire is to have it be storage for my fireworks supplies. I'll have a workbench just outside to preform actual building on, and it would be nice to have everything readily available just inside.

 

My concern is the 100% humidity of MI for the majority of the year and what it could do to the chemicals over a long period of time, even in sealed *airtight* containers. The structure itself, though waterproof, is hardly in any shape to hold out humidity. I have thought about a dehumidifier running 24/7, but besides the energy cost I don't trust the wiring. The guy who did the work almost 40 years ago isn't known for his fine craftsmanship (In readying the building I tore out a crumbled cement floor that was set on top of an unleveled surface of straw and horse manure! idiot.)

 

Anyhow, I'm just looking for some ideas. Surely some of you have detached chemical storage. Hey, maybe I have nothing to worry about. I'm not storing anything particularly hygroscopic, just a ton of nitrate in boxes and twist tied black bags, ammonium perch, and the usual fuels.

 

I was thinking of making a large segregated plywood box or cupboard with a nice set of doors on it for a bit of added protection. I'm also concerned about mice, we have quite a few of them but hopefully I've patched any holes they used to get in through. I'll just have to keep up on maintainence to keep them out I guess.

[Richtee]

Well, for a small cab, make it as tight as ya can, and perhaps a open container of calcium what's it's ass...carbonate? will help keep the humidity down.

 

It's so thick here right now it's hard to breathe! Looks like a storm my be coming in YET AGAIN. What a weird MI summer eh?

[NightHawkInLight]

Well, for a small cab, make it as tight as ya can, and perhaps a open container of calcium what's it's ass...carbonate? will help keep the humidity down.

 

It's so thick here right now it's hard to breathe! Looks like a storm my be coming in YET AGAIN. What a weird MI summer eh?

Yeah it has been strange weather, stranger than usual. I think it's a record summer for cold temperatures. Calcium carbonate would only help briefly until it becomes saturated. If I really wanted to draw the moisture out of the air quick, an open jar of sodium hydroxide will draw in enough water in this humidity to fully dissolve itself in a matter of minutes. Still, it would be very short term humidity relief.

[Mumbles]

Calcium Chloride.

 

Some thing will be alright, like charcoal and sulfur, and the like. There are some nice bucket lids with O-rings and screw on tops for 5 gallon buckets. You could maybe put the chemicals in there if they are in smaller containers, or full buckets of perc or KNO3 or whatever else you have bulk.

[NightHawkInLight]

Calcium Chloride.

 

Some thing will be alright, like charcoal and sulfur, and the like. There are some nice bucket lids with O-rings and screw on tops for 5 gallon buckets. You could maybe put the chemicals in there if they are in smaller containers, or full buckets of perc or KNO3 or whatever else you have bulk.

Ah that's a great idea, I would feel much better doing that. I wonder how pricey they are...I'll have to stop at the hardware store on the way home from work. Thanks Mumbles. How I love a simple solution. Come to think of it, I just got access to tons of 55 gallon drums I was going to use for non pyro related projects. Some of them are the heavy plastic ones with resealable lids. I might make a stand for them to keep them on their side, then glue a board in lengthwise to give me a big flat surface for storage that would also keep the air out. Perfect

[FrankRizzo]

Ah that's a great idea, I would feel much better doing that. I wonder how pricey they are...I'll have to stop at the hardware store on the way home from work. Thanks Mumbles. How I love a simple solution. Come to think of it, I just got access to tons of 55 gallon drums I was going to use for non pyro related projects. Some of them are the heavy plastic ones with resealable lids. I might make a stand for them to keep them on their side, then glue a board in lengthwise to give me a big flat surface for storage that would also keep the air out. Perfect

 

 

Best place to find those lids (Gamma seal) was Sportsman's Guide a while back. If you order a few at a time to get the bulk rate, and use one of the coupons, they ended-up being just a few bucks a piece.

 

Also, bakeries will often having icing buckets free or cheap for the asking. They'll have an o-ring in the sealing ridge.

[Swede]

I have a similar situation. My chemical storage room is very small, about 5 feet by 12 feet, like a walk-in closet. It got blazing hot and ice cold with the seasons, so I added an air conditoner for summer, and a small electric heater for winter. In the summertime, the AC unit overpowers that small room and the humidity really builds, badly. It reached a point where it was unhealthy - mold and all.

 

So I bought a cheap dehumidifier. It works GREAT. Worth every penny of electricity. The amount of water it pulls out of the air is astounding. The 3 gallon basin fills in 2 days to keep the RH at about 40%. Imagine the amount of calcium chloride or similar it would take to absorb a gallon a day. Not economical. And I did try damp-rid. It simply was overwhelmed.

 

The room is now dry and climate controlled year-round. I don't have to worry about heat-sensitive comps or chemicals degrading, and even chems like ammonium nitrate stay free-flowing.

 

If you don't want to do the dehumidifier, all I can suggest is a small, plywood cabinet with a weather-stripped seal, and a can of silica gel or similar inside. But realize that a dehumidifier is controlled - it'll turn on if the RH goes too high, then coast for the rest of the time, so it doesn't use all that much electricity. Same for the AC and heater. If your room is reasonably insulated, the appliances will loaf along but still do a fine job. Good luck. And this is also a good opportunity to put in a real BATFE-approved magazine. There's a great thread on Passfire about converting a job-site metal box into a legit magazine.

[NightHawkInLight]

Some good info Swede. In that case I may just look into a dehumidifier. I'll just drill a hole in the bottom and run a hose through the wall to empty the water as she goes. It's a lot longer than 3 days that I will sometimes take away from my fireworks. I haven't built more than a creamora in months. Though that is mostly because my lab has literally been packed in a closet since last fall.

 

I'm not to concerned about a magazine just yet since I have more than a year to wait before I'm old enough to apply for a license anyway. In the meantime I'm doing my best to stay legal just by not storing anything at all. It would be nice to have a box just for stars. I wonder if stars made only from BP chemicals would fall into the category of black powder, in that you have a 50lb purchase limit a day, but other than that you can fill your basement with the stuff legally.

[al93535]

If you alter black powder in any way it becomes a pyrotechnic composition and is therefore not regulated as black powder anymore according to ATF. Simply adding a few percent of dextrin, titanium or any other chemical to the black powder will in effect remove it from "black powder status". It is however now a pyrotechnic comp and needs to be stored legally and safely.

 

So stars made from BP would absolutely be considered a composition and not BP. But you still cant just fill your basement up with them.

In fact, The way I see it, without proper magazine storage it would be legal to store up to 50lbs of Black powder in your basement, but ILLEGAL to store 1 lb of stars made with black powder. Seeing as how you need proper storage as an amateur to keep any amount of pyrotechnic comp legally. Proper storage means a magazine that meets ATF regulations, proper distances from other buildings and roads, as well as permits.

 

 

I store all of my chemicals in a detached area, I have made zero efforts to control humidity. There is a huge wide swing of temperatures and humidity levels. The only items thats have been affected are KNO3 and NaNO3. They simply clump and harden. Screening the chems when you need them is all that is required.

 

I have seen Magnesium -325mesh form a hard rock after years of storage in less then ideal containers.

 

I have not seen any personal chemical degradation from storage. As long as you are using good container, and if you have them in plastic bags in those containers I'd say you have nothing to worry about. For standard pyro chems that is.... Sodium hydroxide and other chemicals would of course need extra care.

[Seymour]

As humidity is a constant and unavoidable facet of Island life I have to tackle this one all the time.

 

I have one main philosophy. In the end I will build a firework, which is probably going to have stars bound with water as a solvent. The fireworks are probably going to be packaged or pasted using paper in a water based paste. This will 'dry' to become in a state of equilibrium with the atmosphere.

 

In summary, they are going to be exposed to the humidity in the end. Because of this, I tend (exceptions always exist!) to only use chemicals that will not be overly affected by the humnidity, either by ensuring high purity of ones that are 'on edge', or by avoiding using ones that are 'over the edge'.

 

As I said, exceptions exist. I cannot roll some of them purtey AP/MgAl reds up using water (dichromate changing this, perhaps). Indeed, even when I cut them, using NC as a binder, they react! This is the South Pacific Island sytyles humidity making my Ammonium perchlorate sufficiently damp to react with the magnalium even when NC bound. What I do is dry it immediately before use, allowing for reaction-free manufacture!

 

I do not see the point in keeping your Potassium nitrate bone-dry, only to let it form an equilibrium with the atmosphere when you actually use it. With chemicals that you want to avoid that equilibrium even in use, I prefer to let it be at equilibrium and then make it bone-dry before use, rather than battling to keep it dry, and then just before use worrying if it has or has not accumiulated moisture during storage. That is my attitude to the situation - one which I never escape!

[NightHawkInLight]

Thanks for the input al and Seymour

 

I guess that's what I will probably end up doing as well. That is, just keeping the chemicals as airtight as possible in bags and then drying them entirely before use. I'll likely keep my Mg and AP inside as well since it is more valuable to me than the rest and I don't use it quite as often. Possibly still some 5g buckets for my nitrate.