Swede Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I am having some sort of brain freeze. I've got barium chloride, and would like to make either the nitrate, chlorate, or carbonate. Barium Nitrate solubility is well below that of potassium nitrate, potentially yielding barium nitrate and KCl. Could a simple displacement yield enough barium nitrate to be useful? I did UTFSE on more than one site, but was wondering if anyone knew of a relatively clean and simple way to produce a useful barium salt starting with the chloride. As always, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonny Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I am having some sort of brain freeze. I've got barium chloride, and would like to make either the nitrate, chlorate, or carbonate. Barium Nitrate solubility is well below that of potassium nitrate, potentially yielding barium nitrate and KCl. Could a simple displacement yield enough barium nitrate to be useful? I did UTFSE on more than one site, but was wondering if anyone knew of a relatively clean and simple way to produce a useful barium salt starting with the chloride. As always, thanks! If you have the chloride, might it be possible to turn it into a chlorate electrolytically? i'd figure if anyone might give it a shot it would be you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 If you have the chloride, might it be possible to turn it into a chlorate electrolytically? i'd figure if anyone might give it a shot it would be you... Thanks. That was one of my first thoughts, but then I read that Barium "poisons" (in some fashion) the MMO anodes that one would normally use. It's worth a shot, though, because I do have some surplus MMO material. It would be a double experiment. First, can barium chlorate be produced with some ease from the chloride, and secondly, will the anode survive the process? I'd love a route to nitrate, though, given that barium nitrate is as close to unobtanium as can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bab Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Since I've had the same problem, here is my input: -the carbonate is not that interesting as it's already available at the potteries stores; besides it's not good for color.We are left with either the nitrate or the chlorate. The chloride doesn't react with nitric acid, so in order to get the nitrate, this is feasable and easy: mix with ammonium nitrate solution and you'll get the low soluble nitrate and the very soluble ammonium chloride. Moreover, it can be further purified by heating the Ba(NO3)2 crystals (ammonium chloride decomposes easily, at around 340 degrees C so it can be "burned off". There is a nice synth on youtube, where you can nicely see how the crystals are formed as a sludge. You need to take care of the possible crystalization water (could be *2 H2O usually) in your calculations. If your BaCl2 has water, it's crystaline. If anhydrous it looks pretty much like CaCl2 (kind of amorphous, porous mass of particles) 208 80 261 53,5BaCl2 + NH4NO3 --> Ba(NO2)3 + 2NH4Cl Another possibility is the use of the chloride directly in a ammonium perchlorate system (with hexamine). It'll work, but it'll be an efficient moisture absorber too. Be careful with the toxicity of the Ba, but I'm fairly sure you already know that Edited May 11, 2009 by a_bab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted May 12, 2009 Author Share Posted May 12, 2009 Thank you a_bab, that appears to be a good route to the nitrate. My barium chloride looks like sugar, quite crystalline, so I assume it is not anhydrous. I like the idea of decomposing remaining ammonium chloride. Barium nitrate melts at 590 C, very high. Solubilities: ammonium chloride - 29.7 g/100 mL at zero degreespotassium chloride - 28.1 g/100 ml if starting with potassium nitrate.barium nitrate - 5 g/100 mL So loss-wise, not bad at all. Remaining aqueous barium nitrate or chloride can be rendered non-toxic with any soluble sulfate salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bab Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) I just realized that some ammonium chloride doesn't hurt at all as an impurity since it's a chlorine donor. Edited May 15, 2009 by a_bab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty green flame Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 I just realized that some ammonium chloride doesn't hurt at all as an impurity since it's a chlorine donor. Just remember, Chlorates and Ammonium salts don't go together all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Ammonium chloride (sal ammoniac) is an old chlorine donor. It has fallen out of favor for more than one reason,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bab Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 You are both right; but I'd never use chlorates anyway. As for a Ba(ClO3)2 composition, "contaminated" barium nitrate woldn't have any use since the barium chlorate IS the best green generator. Obviously, a better chlorine donor should be used then ammonium chloride. All in all, a batch of barium nitrate with some ammonium chloride in it, won't affect the performance of a composition unless there is no chlorate involved (with the known exception of Shimitzu's smoke composition we all know, but I wouldn't take the chances anyway). A chlorine donor is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50AE Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 To not start a new thread, I just want to know if there are any good organic green compositions using barium chlorate. Because I know that mixtures with BaClO3 are more sensitive than those with KClO3 and that chlorates should not be mixed with metal powders, I'd prefer to use organic compositions for safety reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrantBB Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Some of the older green compositions use just barium chlorate and shellac, I saw a bunch of formulas on passfire when I had a guest account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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